Leica-Minolta collaboration

Mir · Expire: 2017-09-30

Hi all,

Anyone here with a definitive lens list resulting from the short lived Leica-Minolta collaboration ??

I understand that probably no Minolta lenses were designed by Leica, but even a simple technology
exchange must have resulted in something pretty good.... considering that Minolta lenses
aren't junk from the start...

I'm curious...

thebbm · Joined: 11 Dec 2013 Posts: 294 Location: France montpellier

Hello

I think the Minolta MD 35-70 f3.5 Macro (constant aperture) is one lens from this collaboration:

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

The 500 mirror lens as well, the only AF mirror ever made was used by Leica and Minolta.

TrueLoveOne · Expire: 2013-12-24

The MD 3.5/35-70 for sure, also MD 4.5/75-200(Vario-Elmar), also 16mm fisheye and 2.8/24 (Elmarit R). There are some more, but i am not 100% sure, somebody here will know!

In this picture you can see the 24mm on a XD7, which was also made with Leica and sold as the R4.

Leica in disguise by TrueLoveOne, on Flickr

paulhofseth · Expire: 2018-06-28

M-Rokkor for the CL& CLE, 40 & 90mm were Leitz designs (Summicron& C-Elmar), the later 90 design was altered by Minolta.

p.

Arctures · Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 295

I know only these: 16/2.8, 24/2.8, 70-210/4 macro, 75-200/4.5 and 35-70/3.5 macro for sure!

DR.JUAN · Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 661

Summicron m 2/50 1969 version. Minolta pg 1,4/50 and 1,2/58.

Karhallarn · Joined: 26 May 2009 Posts: 577

When I recall correctly, the MC 100mm f3.5 Macro comes out of this collaboration as well.

DR.JUAN · Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 661

danfromm · Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 595

http://www.macrolenses.de/objektive.php

The 12.5/2 and 25/2.5 are rebadged Photars.

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

-Sony 16/2.8 and Sony 500/8 are optically also same as Leica as far as I know
Visual comparision (colors, resoltion) of the image samples from the web make it look like that Minolta AF 500, Sony AF 500 and Leica 500 are all the same. Can't find good samples of the MD 500 right now but I suspect it's als the same as the Leica.

-Minolta MD 100/4 Macro is also a good candidate to be optically identical with Leica 100/4 Macro Elmar, at least if I remember correctly I saw MTF charts and the Minolta had was 98% identical (difference might be due coatings or quality control) and visually their character absolutely indistinguishable from the samples I've seen from the Leica (I only had the Minolta).

-The Minolta M-Rokkor 90/4 I had is not 100% optically identical to the Leica Elmar-C 90/4. I have/had both and they have an almost identical build but the M-Rokkor has improved wide open performance. Both Elmar and M-Rokkor might have two slightly diffeent versions each though.

DR.JUAN · Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 661

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

tao · Expire: 2015-03-12

So, are there any Made in German Rokkors or Made in Japan Leitz? If not, how exactly this collaboration worked? They just swapped the blue prints? The way one-ton Chevy trucks in Asia/Aus. are made in GM factories based on Isuzu designs?

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

Hi there,

In addition to the already mentioned lenses please note that both the mirror lenses RF500 and RF800 have been made by Minolta for both companies. On the other side the Telyt-S 800/6.3 made by Leica also with the Minolta SR-mount.

Greets, Thomas

Grev · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:21 am Post subject:

Also read a rumour that the MC/MD 50mm f2 is based on the Summicron.

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

Grev · Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:23 am Post subject:

dickb · Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 821

dickb · Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 821

Mir · Expire: 2017-09-30

Here are some excerpts found looking thru Red Bailey's Minolta Chronology site...
That appears to be a comprehensive research work...

http://thesybersite.com/minolta/historical/Minolta_Lens_Chronology.htm

March, 1973

Up-dated long tele.

- MC Zoom Rokkor-X 80-200/4,5 [14/10] (ø55mm) 1,8m f/32 74,4x156mm 700g

A new design, possibly the first good zoom from Minolta (technology finally caught up). Not only were the optics good, but the zoom range was more useful, with a decent aperture. This optic was adopted by Leitz and sold in Leica R Mount, as part of the technology sharing agreement between the two companies signed that year.

May, 1973

- MC W.Rokkor-X SI 24/2,8 [9/7] (ø55mm) 0,3m f/16 62,2x50mm 410g

A brand new lens in the extra-wide class, the design incorporates floating-element focusing for near-range correction and it is a marvelous lens. Leitz took this one for their own, too, and it’s probably the best one they got.

October, 1973

- RF Rokkor-X 800/8 [8/7] (rear slot) 8m n/a 125x166,5mm 2.000g

A slightly different version of the recently-introduced 800mm mirror. Now it is fully in the Rokkor-X style, the focal length is in millimetres, and the rubber body grip is the same as other lenses. The accompanying special filter set has fewer filters, only offering an ND4X instead of 2, 4, and 8 (and possibly slightly different grades of yellow and orange). This lens was also re-badged as a Leitz for their R-mount cameras.

February, 1974

- Leitz Photar 12,5/1,9 [4/4] (n/a) n/a f/8 25,5x12,5mm 30g

Leitz’ reciprocation for borrowing several Minolta lenses was to make some of their specialty lenses available to Minolta users. Two tiny microscope lenses (Photar) and one monster long lens (Telyt) could be ordered through Leitz dealers. The Photars have a mount designated Royal Microscope Society screw, this was adapted via the M Adapter. There is no focusing mechanism, it is all handled with bellows or extension tubes, and the diaphragm is completely manual. The recommended magnification range of the 12,5mm is 5 to 20 times life-sized.

- Leitz Photar 25/2,5 [6/4] (n/a) n/a f/16 28x15,5mm 50g

The companion lens to the short Photar is a similarly-tiny 25mm. Magnification is between 2-10X.

- Leitz Telyt-S 800/6,3 [3/1] (ø138mm) 12,5m f/32 152x796,5mm 6.860g

A huge lens to tempt Minolta owners. Its native mount was Leica R, so ordering one of these meant the Leitz factory had to switch that to a Minolta bayonet. Manual diaphragm. The optical design is completely simple, three large elements cemented in one group at the front of an 800mm tube, but the results are not bad as that might imply. While the Photars were expensive for their size, they were at least within the reach of many Minolta owners. The Telyt was completely un-affordable, so it is doubtful that many were sold with the modified mount (particularly as the RF 800/8 was much cheaper and only two-thirds of a stop slower).

March, 1978

- MD Zoom Rokkor-X 75-200/4,5 [15/11] (ø55mm) 1,2m f/22 69,5x155mm 630g

A new mid-tele zoom, replacing the 80-200mm. While the range is very similar, it is definitely a different lens, with a new optical formula and closer focus for a higher magnification ratio, among other things. The image quality is slightly improved, and this lens also was re-badged as a Leitz Vario Elmar for Leica R.

September, 1978

- MD Zoom Rokkor-X 35-70/3,5 [8/7] (ø55mm) 1m f/22 67,5x65,5mm 365g

A new standard range zoom which replaced the just-dis-continued 40-80mm, whose strangeness and cost meant it never caught on. This is less un-wieldy due to its regular two-touch zoom/focus system rather than external box, the range encompasses the more useful 35mm end, and it doesn’t give up much on the constant f/3,5 aperture. The third lens to incorporate dual threading, with 55mm for filters and 62mm for the plastic lens shade. This lens is another that was adopted by Leitz for the Leica R system, and the excellent photographic results show why.

June, 1981

- MD 24/2,8 [8/8] (ø49mm) 0,25m f/22 64x39mm 200g

A new optical design for the 24mm, it has been shrunk again by removing an element from the formula. Slightly closer focusing distance. Besides cost-cutting, it’s hard to see why they abandoned the classic design which was successful for Leitz as well.

- RF 800/8 [8/7] (rear slot) 8m n/a 127x178mm 1.960g

A brand-new design for the 800mm mirror lens. This version had a white body, with a rigid carrying handle. It still used front mirror focusing, but now there was a thin focusing ring with a knob at the front, rather than a track. Like the previous ones, it was sold in R mount for Leica SLRs, but this one was not re-branded as Leitz, it was a Minolta lens.

1983

- MD Zoom 70-210/4 [12/9] (ø55mm) 1,1m f/32 72x153mm 635g

The replacement for the 75-200mm mid-tele zoom, this presents small improvements in the range, maximum aperture, and near focusing distance. Being able to focus to 1,1m at 210mm, it doesn’t matter that this is a one-touch design lacking a macro mode, since it can do better than 1:4 macro ratio like this. Arguments persist over which is the better performer among the three similar zooms that Leitz adopted for the Leica R-series SLRs, but any way you slice it, this is a supreme optic.

© RED Bailey

scsambrook · Expire: 2011-11-18

Thanks to others for some useful and informative contributions to this thread. It may also be interesting to note what Erwin Puts wrote in his ' Leica Compendium 3rd edn. The book was written with the "support" of Leica Camera and Puts seems to have had access to the firm's archive material so - hopefully - it should be reliably factual. Nowhere does he give any indication of Leitz designs being used by other makers, apart from the Minolta-branded M lenses listed later in this post.

The following R series lenses (apart from the Schneider Super Angulons and PA Curtagons) were the result of collaborations:

Super Elmar-R 15mm f3.5 - Zeiss (not Minolta but for interest) - 1980. Optical cell "identical to Zeiss Distagon-T 3.5/15" p.521.

Fisheye-Elmarit-R 16mm f2.8 - 1974 "identical to the Minolta version" p.525.

Elmarit-R 24mm f2.8 - He says it " . . . is often referred to as a Minolta lens. The true background is a bit more complicated. The orignal design is a Minolta computation with Minolta glass and glass from other manufacturers. Leitz had adapted the computation. The lens is completely built in Germany". The inference is clearly that other glass was used, although he doesn't actually say so. p.530.

MR-Telyt-R 500mm f8 - 1980 - this was "designed and made by Minolta" p. 568.

Vario-Elmar-R 28-70mm f3.5-4.5 - two versions, 1990 and 1998, both "Sigma designs" and [presumably the later one] " a definite improvement of the earlier Minolta design" by which I think he must mean the 35-70mm. p.575.

Vario-Elmar-R 35-70mm f3.5 - two versions but " . . . the optical cell has not been changed" in the second one. The design was by Minolta and the lenses were made "in several locations" The ". . . orignal Minolta version showed some manufacturing defects" and the mechanics were "re-engineered to align them with the production standards of Leica". p.578.

Vario-Elmar-R 70-21mm f4 - 1984 - "This is a Minolta design . . . " p.585. Puts doesn't say where it was built or what glasses were used.

Vario-Elmar-R 70-200mm f4 - 1978 - "This . . . is a Minolta design" p. 586. Again, no indication of where it was made.

Vario-Elmar-R 80-200 f4.5 - 1974 - "Minolta"p. 603.

As for M lenses, the only ones mentioned as any kind of joint efforts are those for the Leica CL. Puts doesn't actually say who designed the Summicron-C 40mm f2 or where the Leitz and Minolta versions were made. In his summmary overview of Leitz/Leica lenses he lists it as "ELW" ( Eenst Leitz Wetzlar). All he writes is that "The Minolta version used Minolta glass" p.447, which implies that the Leitz versions were made in one of the Leitz factories. Of the Elmar-C 90mm f4 he writes that "The Minolta Rokkor-C is identical and has been built in Wetzlar too" p.496. This is somewhat ambiguous - sometimes his English is not crystal clear - and could be understood as meaning that either all the lenses were built in Germany or that they were made in Germany and Japan. In his summary he again describes it as "ELW".

Excalibur · Expire: 2014-04-21

Wow that's a blow for the Leica fanatics in that some Minolta lenses are the same and just as good, also some Leica lenses were designed by Minolta.

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

from "The Leica Lens Book" by Brian Bower ( 1998 )