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Leica M-Monochrom - missing ?
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Leica M-Monochrom - missing ? Reply with quote
When I went to bed last night there was a thread on the new Leica M-Monochrome. This morning it seems to have disappeared. Can anyone help ?


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A Mod must have deleted it. Usually problematic threads are moved to the Moderators forum for further discussion, but this one has been deleted all together.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's wierd, I don't recall seeing anything problematic in that thread, maybe after I went to bed something unpleasant was posted.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
you can re-start to talk about that if found it is exciting ...


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, it's not exciting to argue about the rights and wrongs of the huge price tag, but it is interesting to discuss the actual camera and it's capabilities.

Is it just an M-9 with the colour filter removed and a bundled copy of Silver EFEX 2?

How good is the BW output, is it really much better due to the lack of a colour filter?

How does the BW output at 18MP compare to a BW film shot with a modern emulsion such as TMAX 100 or Delta 100?


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

How good is the BW output, is it really much better due to the lack of a colour filter?


It must be. It's like a motorcycle without the eco filtering on the muffler: it must go faster, it can't do otherwise.

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
How does the BW output at 18MP compare to a BW film shot with a modern emulsion such as TMAX 100 or Delta 100?


I can not answer, but I know that one thing are lab tests, and another is the practical use. In lab tests, some films may prove to be more resolving than digital sensors; but in real life, on the field, with all the variables of use, in my experience, digital always wins in terms of actual resolution and sharpness. This because our film in the fridge is not as perfect as the film in Zeiss labs, our processing is not as perfect as the processing in Zeiss labs, our scanners eat the dust when compared to the scanners used in Zeiss labs, and so on.
Digital instead, with all it's inherent limitations, provides a really steady, constant quality base because it does not depend on film stock, it does not depend on film condition, it does not depend on film processing, it does not depend on film scanning. What digital has to deliver, it always delivers, even in the most difficult conditions where your film shooting may miserably fail.

Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. Laughing


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
orio, have you seen any b&w files from the xpro? the ones ive seen were, imo, outstanding and had a very film like feel to them.
tony


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
orio, have you seen any b&w files from the xpro? the ones ive seen were, imo, outstanding and had a very film like feel to them.
tony


I know that the Fuji are great cameras. And in fact I would love one.
As for being film like, I don't know... I'm very difficult to be pleased in respect to this.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. Laughing


Yes, I agree, I love BW film's 'look'. Silver EFEX does a good job at mimicking it but still, doesn't quite match it.

A good 6x9 BW negative is a thing of beauty and I think will remain competitive against anything digital for years to come.

I am only just beginning to learn to shoot and process 6x9 BW film but it's very enjoyable and results can be very nice, even with old cameras like the 1937 Bessa I shot this with:



One positive about the mono Leica, if it proves to be a success, maybe someone like Sony or Samsung will take the colour filter off one of their sensors and make a BW camera that mere mortals can afford.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, there was a thread, and there was a conflict brewing there. However, deleting threads or posts silently is quite a bad policy, IMHO. In addition posts of people that had nothing to do with the conflict disappeared as well...


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please don't start complaining, this thread is for discussing the mono Leica, not arguing and conflict.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, please don't start complaining about people giving feedback. This thread started as a question why the other thread is gone. So you are off topic here.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
rbelyell wrote:
orio, have you seen any b&w files from the xpro? the ones ive seen were, imo, outstanding and had a very film like feel to them.
tony


I know that the Fuji are great cameras. And in fact I would love one.
As for being film like, I don't know... I'm very difficult to be pleased in respect to this.


My impression on Fuji film like = not film like at all.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Ian, please don't start complaining about people giving feedback. This thread started as a question why the other thread is gone. So you are off topic here.


Not complaining, just politely asking you to do as Attila said and discuss the Leica mono without any further conflict.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think you can talk here from anything what you think is related to topic to me no matter fuji, leica, old bessa etc . Just keep it politely. Previous topic was moved because some posts wasn't polite enough, currently in Moderator Cafe to see and discuss by moderators.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's cool, I have grown so tired of conflict and it's usually just due to how the text-only format is so open to simple misunderstandings that would never happen in actual conversation in person.

I do think it will be a sad day when we have to shoot digital BW, let's hope they don't stop making BW film in our lifetimes.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I do think it will be a sad day when we have to shoot digital BW, let's hope they don't stop making BW film in our lifetimes.


We do max as we can to save film , hopefully we will can. I won't see boring life with all digital cameras only.


PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:


Not complaining, just politely asking you to do as Attila said and discuss the Leica mono without any further conflict.


Look, there is no conflict at all (or at least no conflict involving me). Just as OP I noticed the thread removed. I didn't like it on principle, but at the same time it didn't bother me enough to start a thread or anything like that. Now that the question of the missing thread came up, I took the opportunity to express my view on the issue.


PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the m-monochrom is brilliant in concept but flawed in execution, 8000 is a tad steep , plus its a niche within a niche!

Saying that, I bet they sell out of them and some will actually be used to take photos with ;p


PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dude163 wrote:
I think the m-monochrom is brilliant in concept but flawed in execution, 8000 is a tad steep , plus its a niche within a niche!

Saying that, I bet they sell out of them and some will actually be used to take photos with ;p


Well said.


PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio wrote:
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. Laughing


Yes, I agree, I love BW film's 'look'. Silver EFEX does a good job at mimicking it but still, doesn't quite match it.

A good 6x9 BW negative is a thing of beauty and I think will remain competitive against anything digital for years to come.

I am only just beginning to learn to shoot and process 6x9 BW film but it's very enjoyable and results can be very nice, even with old cameras like the 1937 Bessa I shot this with:



One positive about the mono Leica, if it proves to be a success, maybe someone like Sony or Samsung will take the colour filter off one of their sensors and make a BW camera that mere mortals can afford.



whoa! gorgeous shot, Ian!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Even if TMax100, Delta100 etc. are having a better resolution - as Orio said very well it's especially very hard to digitalize them. And a fairly fast scanner which delivers really satisfying scans costs more than an Leica M9 Monochrom I think. And the few films which may have a visible higher resolution (like ADOX CMS20 etc.) have only an extremly low ISO. If you're a professional you will maybe make several thousands of shots a year and very good B/W films cost between 3,50-6€ per roll you should'nt ignore.
No to mention the preview function and the time you save with the Leica as you don't have to develope them Wink Very Happy

I'm sure the M9M is a great camera for professional photographers which use 35mm B/W material and it might be even a subsitute for medium format for some professionals as the resolution is gigantic.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian nice shot of a P4 picking up a P6 next month............looking at film and digital on the monitor doesnt do justice to having a wet or inkprinted photo actually in your hand then you can determine the difference


PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
On topic relative to the camera, not the thread deletion: the thing that keeps me using film is the dynamic range. The Sony Nex 7 and Nikon D800 are getting closer to what film offers, but still film offers more. I like digging into film and finding out that highlights aren't blown out beyond being usable . I have metered situations I shoot in and it's not uncommon for me to use 14+ stops and more. I could get 14 stops with the D800 for $3000 or so, or get more than that with my $45 Nikon FG shooting film. At this point, it doesn't seem like a hard choice. A Leica for $9000? It had better offer MORE dynamic range than film before I'd consider spending that much money!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hari wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio wrote:
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. Laughing


Yes, I agree, I love BW film's 'look'. Silver EFEX does a good job at mimicking it but still, doesn't quite match it.

A good 6x9 BW negative is a thing of beauty and I think will remain competitive against anything digital for years to come.

I am only just beginning to learn to shoot and process 6x9 BW film but it's very enjoyable and results can be very nice, even with old cameras like the 1937 Bessa I shot this with:



One positive about the mono Leica, if it proves to be a success, maybe someone like Sony or Samsung will take the colour filter off one of their sensors and make a BW camera that mere mortals can afford.



whoa! gorgeous shot, Ian!


Agreed!

Is this a lab scan or did you scan it at home?
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