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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: Leica M-Monochrom - missing ? |
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sichko wrote:
When I went to bed last night there was a thread on the new Leica M-Monochrome. This morning it seems to have disappeared. Can anyone help ? _________________ John |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
A Mod must have deleted it. Usually problematic threads are moved to the Moderators forum for further discussion, but this one has been deleted all together. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That's wierd, I don't recall seeing anything problematic in that thread, maybe after I went to bed something unpleasant was posted. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
you can re-start to talk about that if found it is exciting ... _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, it's not exciting to argue about the rights and wrongs of the huge price tag, but it is interesting to discuss the actual camera and it's capabilities.
Is it just an M-9 with the colour filter removed and a bundled copy of Silver EFEX 2?
How good is the BW output, is it really much better due to the lack of a colour filter?
How does the BW output at 18MP compare to a BW film shot with a modern emulsion such as TMAX 100 or Delta 100? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
How good is the BW output, is it really much better due to the lack of a colour filter? |
It must be. It's like a motorcycle without the eco filtering on the muffler: it must go faster, it can't do otherwise.
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
How does the BW output at 18MP compare to a BW film shot with a modern emulsion such as TMAX 100 or Delta 100? |
I can not answer, but I know that one thing are lab tests, and another is the practical use. In lab tests, some films may prove to be more resolving than digital sensors; but in real life, on the field, with all the variables of use, in my experience, digital always wins in terms of actual resolution and sharpness. This because our film in the fridge is not as perfect as the film in Zeiss labs, our processing is not as perfect as the processing in Zeiss labs, our scanners eat the dust when compared to the scanners used in Zeiss labs, and so on.
Digital instead, with all it's inherent limitations, provides a really steady, constant quality base because it does not depend on film stock, it does not depend on film condition, it does not depend on film processing, it does not depend on film scanning. What digital has to deliver, it always delivers, even in the most difficult conditions where your film shooting may miserably fail.
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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rbelyell
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 4269 Location: somewhere in the mountains of central NY
Expire: 2014-01-31
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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rbelyell wrote:
orio, have you seen any b&w files from the xpro? the ones ive seen were, imo, outstanding and had a very film like feel to them.
tony _________________ Epson RD1 + Elmarit 21/2.8; Summarit 50/1.5; Summarit 75/2.5; Elmar-c 90/4; Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris; Holga 120 Pano
GREAT STUFF FOR SALE:
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Fuji GM670+100/3.5+65/8!
Praktisix 6x6 medium format + ZeissBiometar 120/2.8
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PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
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take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long' |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
rbelyell wrote: |
orio, have you seen any b&w files from the xpro? the ones ive seen were, imo, outstanding and had a very film like feel to them.
tony |
I know that the Fuji are great cameras. And in fact I would love one.
As for being film like, I don't know... I'm very difficult to be pleased in respect to this. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. |
Yes, I agree, I love BW film's 'look'. Silver EFEX does a good job at mimicking it but still, doesn't quite match it.
A good 6x9 BW negative is a thing of beauty and I think will remain competitive against anything digital for years to come.
I am only just beginning to learn to shoot and process 6x9 BW film but it's very enjoyable and results can be very nice, even with old cameras like the 1937 Bessa I shot this with:
One positive about the mono Leica, if it proves to be a success, maybe someone like Sony or Samsung will take the colour filter off one of their sensors and make a BW camera that mere mortals can afford. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
Yes, there was a thread, and there was a conflict brewing there. However, deleting threads or posts silently is quite a bad policy, IMHO. In addition posts of people that had nothing to do with the conflict disappeared as well... |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Please don't start complaining, this thread is for discussing the mono Leica, not arguing and conflict. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
Ian, please don't start complaining about people giving feedback. This thread started as a question why the other thread is gone. So you are off topic here. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Orio wrote: |
rbelyell wrote: |
orio, have you seen any b&w files from the xpro? the ones ive seen were, imo, outstanding and had a very film like feel to them.
tony |
I know that the Fuji are great cameras. And in fact I would love one.
As for being film like, I don't know... I'm very difficult to be pleased in respect to this. |
My impression on Fuji film like = not film like at all. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
fermy wrote: |
Ian, please don't start complaining about people giving feedback. This thread started as a question why the other thread is gone. So you are off topic here. |
Not complaining, just politely asking you to do as Attila said and discuss the Leica mono without any further conflict. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I think you can talk here from anything what you think is related to topic to me no matter fuji, leica, old bessa etc . Just keep it politely. Previous topic was moved because some posts wasn't polite enough, currently in Moderator Cafe to see and discuss by moderators. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That's cool, I have grown so tired of conflict and it's usually just due to how the text-only format is so open to simple misunderstandings that would never happen in actual conversation in person.
I do think it will be a sad day when we have to shoot digital BW, let's hope they don't stop making BW film in our lifetimes. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Quote: |
I do think it will be a sad day when we have to shoot digital BW, let's hope they don't stop making BW film in our lifetimes. |
We do max as we can to save film , hopefully we will can. I won't see boring life with all digital cameras only. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Not complaining, just politely asking you to do as Attila said and discuss the Leica mono without any further conflict. |
Look, there is no conflict at all (or at least no conflict involving me). Just as OP I noticed the thread removed. I didn't like it on principle, but at the same time it didn't bother me enough to start a thread or anything like that. Now that the question of the missing thread came up, I took the opportunity to express my view on the issue. |
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dude163
Joined: 21 Mar 2010 Posts: 726 Location: New Brunswick , Canada
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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dude163 wrote:
I think the m-monochrom is brilliant in concept but flawed in execution, 8000 is a tad steep , plus its a niche within a niche!
Saying that, I bet they sell out of them and some will actually be used to take photos with ;p _________________ Stormtrooper white Pentax K-X m42 adapter
Soviets: Helios 44m-6 and 40-1 , Pentacon 50mm f1.8
Taks : ST 28mm f3.5 , ST 35mm f3.5, SMC 50mm f1.4 , ST 55mm f2 , SMC 135 f 3.5 , ST 200 f 4
CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 1954 model
Leica m8u : Rigid cron 50/2 Elmar 90/4 Elmarit 135/2.8 Jupiter8 50/2 Serenar 85/2
my flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/riverviewfoto/
Vintage lens blog : http://dude163.blogspot.com/
500px : http://500px.com/roberttwilson |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
dude163 wrote: |
I think the m-monochrom is brilliant in concept but flawed in execution, 8000 is a tad steep , plus its a niche within a niche!
Saying that, I bet they sell out of them and some will actually be used to take photos with ;p |
Well said. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Hari
Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Posts: 1790
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hari wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Orio wrote: |
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. |
Yes, I agree, I love BW film's 'look'. Silver EFEX does a good job at mimicking it but still, doesn't quite match it.
A good 6x9 BW negative is a thing of beauty and I think will remain competitive against anything digital for years to come.
I am only just beginning to learn to shoot and process 6x9 BW film but it's very enjoyable and results can be very nice, even with old cameras like the 1937 Bessa I shot this with:
One positive about the mono Leica, if it proves to be a success, maybe someone like Sony or Samsung will take the colour filter off one of their sensors and make a BW camera that mere mortals can afford. |
whoa! gorgeous shot, Ian! _________________
Analogue Rangefinders: Leica M5, Leica M6 Titanium classic 0.72, Leica M7 0.58, Leica M7 0.85
Digital Rangefinder: Leica M9, Leica Monochrom, Leica M240
SLR: Leica R3 electronic, Canon AE1P
DSLR: Canon 5D MK2
M mount Lenses: Super-Wide Heliar 15/f4.5 ASPH. + Leica 24/f3.8 ASPH + Leica 28/f2 ASPH. + Leica 35/f1.4 ASPH. FLE + Leica Noctilux 50/f0.95 + Leica Noctilux 50/f1 + Canon 50/f1.2 LTM + Leica 50/f1.4 ASPH. + Leica 50/f1.5 + Zeiss ZM Sonnar 50/f1.5 + Leica APO Summicron 50/f2 + Leica Summitar 50/f2 + Leica Rigid Summicron 50/f2 + Zeiss ZM Planar 50/f2 + Leica 50/f2.8 E39 + Leica 75/f1.4 + Leica APO 75/f2 ASPH. + Voigtlander 75/f2.5 + Leica Summarex 85/f1.5 + Leica APO 90/f2 ASPH. + Leica 90/f2 E55 + Leica 90/f2.8 + Leica APO 135/f3.4
Leica R mount Lenses: Leica-R 60/2.8 E55 + Leica-R 80/1.4 E67 + Leica-R 180/4
EF mount Lenses: Canon 50/1.8 II
M42 mount Lenses: Too many
My pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dementedjesus/ |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
Even if TMax100, Delta100 etc. are having a better resolution - as Orio said very well it's especially very hard to digitalize them. And a fairly fast scanner which delivers really satisfying scans costs more than an Leica M9 Monochrom I think. And the few films which may have a visible higher resolution (like ADOX CMS20 etc.) have only an extremly low ISO. If you're a professional you will maybe make several thousands of shots a year and very good B/W films cost between 3,50-6€ per roll you should'nt ignore.
No to mention the preview function and the time you save with the Leica as you don't have to develope them
I'm sure the M9M is a great camera for professional photographers which use 35mm B/W material and it might be even a subsitute for medium format for some professionals as the resolution is gigantic. _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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TVR
Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Posts: 97 Location: Brandon, MB
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:57 am Post subject: |
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TVR wrote:
Ian nice shot of a P4 picking up a P6 next month............looking at film and digital on the monitor doesnt do justice to having a wet or inkprinted photo actually in your hand then you can determine the difference |
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mdarnton
Joined: 03 Mar 2012 Posts: 79 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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mdarnton wrote:
On topic relative to the camera, not the thread deletion: the thing that keeps me using film is the dynamic range. The Sony Nex 7 and Nikon D800 are getting closer to what film offers, but still film offers more. I like digging into film and finding out that highlights aren't blown out beyond being usable . I have metered situations I shoot in and it's not uncommon for me to use 14+ stops and more. I could get 14 stops with the D800 for $3000 or so, or get more than that with my $45 Nikon FG shooting film. At this point, it doesn't seem like a hard choice. A Leica for $9000? It had better offer MORE dynamic range than film before I'd consider spending that much money! _________________ small formats: http://flickr.com/mdarnton
large format: http://flickr.com/michaeldarnton
http://mdarnton.tumblr.com |
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Yebisu
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 Posts: 1299
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Yebisu wrote:
Hari wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Orio wrote: |
Of course, there is also the aesthetical factor, and this is another game entirely. For instance, no digital black and white, for me, is aesthetically as pleasing as film B&W. Yet.
M9 Monochrome may be able to change that. But also, I may never be able to know, because I'll never get one. |
Yes, I agree, I love BW film's 'look'. Silver EFEX does a good job at mimicking it but still, doesn't quite match it.
A good 6x9 BW negative is a thing of beauty and I think will remain competitive against anything digital for years to come.
I am only just beginning to learn to shoot and process 6x9 BW film but it's very enjoyable and results can be very nice, even with old cameras like the 1937 Bessa I shot this with:
One positive about the mono Leica, if it proves to be a success, maybe someone like Sony or Samsung will take the colour filter off one of their sensors and make a BW camera that mere mortals can afford. |
whoa! gorgeous shot, Ian! |
Agreed!
Is this a lab scan or did you scan it at home? |
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