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Leica f2/50mm APO ASPH Summicron M
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Leica f2/50mm APO ASPH Summicron M Reply with quote
Laughing $7195.00 Laughing






PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yeah, i'll take two!

this reminds me of what they used to say about andy kaufman's comedy routines: 'its like a joke, but nobody laughs'.

Last edited by rbelyell on Thu May 10, 2012 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is great at least I will not tempted Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's ridiculous, SEVEN times the cost of the Zeiss Planar T* 2/50 ZM.

I'll bet my left nut it's not seven times as good.

That little red dot carries such a ludicrous price premium.


PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
That is great at least I will not tempted Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


PMSL Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That's ridiculous, SEVEN times the cost of the Zeiss Planar T* 2/50 ZM.


Who has it's generous share of axial CA (Zeiss power user speaking here)

Quote:
I'll bet my left nut it's not seven times as good.


it surely is not, but if you need flawless photos for a job that requires flawless images without CA, you'll have to buy (or rent) the APO lens,
or you may not get the job after that, and the one after that one too.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, I didn't expect that from that Zeiss lens.

I still think the price of this Leica lens is ridiculous.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is some suspicion that Leica has a very dense sensor coming in the next full Spectrum M Digital.
It's surpassing to see the Cost of this lens. On the other hand When you look at the cost of some cine lenses and Modern Medium and Large format lenses the shock of the $7200 tag for the aa 5o Summicron M is quite blunted.
Time will tell if there is a camera that can fully exploit it's potential.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Stick it on a film camera, load some microfilm (600 lp/mm resolution, Velvia 50 is only 160 lp/mm) and that will tell you what the resolution capabilities of this lens are. Be a while before sensors approach that kind of resolution.

There are loads of lenses that will outresolve a dense sensor such as the 24mp NEX-7 and there are loads of lenses that are free of CA, they have been making apochromatic lenses since at least the 1950s (process lenses are apochromatic) and they have been making lenses with aspherical elements since at least the 1970s (Konica made a zoom with an aspherical element) so I'm still pretty sure this lens shouldn't cost 7 grand. It probably has exotic glass types but even so, it can't cost so much to make it has to cost 7 grand, surely?

I do acknowledge that as sensors become ever denser lenses will have to become ever higher in resolution, but has anyone worked out how dense they will have to be before a quality old lens won't be able to provide maximum sharpness?

I suppose Leica reasoned they won't sell them in any kind of large volume and the higher the price tag the higher the perceived quality in the minds of their niche customers.

I wonder how much Samyang would have to charge if they made the same lens design with the same materials?

If only we knew how much it costs Leica to produce this lens, then we would have some sense of how much markup they are putting on it purely because of the Leica name. How much are they charging you purely for that red dot?

I wonder how many copies of this lens Leica expect to sell?


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Stick it on a film camera, load some microfilm (600 lp/mm resolution, Velvia 50 is only 160 lp/mm) and that will tell you what the resolution capabilities of this lens are. Be a while before sensors approach that kind of resolution.

There are loads of lenses that will outresolve a dense sensor such as the 24mp NEX-7 and there are loads of lenses that are free of CA, they have been making apochromatic lenses since at least the 1950s (process lenses are apochromatic) and they have been making lenses with aspherical elements since at least the 1970s (Konica made a zoom with an aspherical element) so I'm still pretty sure this lens shouldn't cost 7 grand. It probably has exotic glass types but even so, it can't cost so much to make it has to cost 7 grand, surely?

I suppose Leica reasoned they won't sell them in any kind of large volume and the higher the price tag the higher the perceived quality in the minds of their niche customers.

I wonder how much Samyang would have to charge if they made the same lens design with the same materials?

If only we knew how much it costs Leica to produce this lens, then we would have some sense of how much markup they are putting on it purely because of the Leica name.

I wonder how many copies of this lens Leica expect to sell?



Well if you compare the Leica noctilux 50mm f0.95 with the new Slr magic hyperprime 50mm t0.95 they have just produced which is a noctilux tweaked to get a bit more light out of it and it has less CA than the Leica. The Leica Noctilux goes for about $10K on the Evil bay, the Slr magic tweaked copy is only $3K.
So that gives you an indication of production cost and the markup Leica put on thier lenses at least.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hood wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Stick it on a film camera, load some microfilm (600 lp/mm resolution, Velvia 50 is only 160 lp/mm) and that will tell you what the resolution capabilities of this lens are. Be a while before sensors approach that kind of resolution.

There are loads of lenses that will outresolve a dense sensor such as the 24mp NEX-7 and there are loads of lenses that are free of CA, they have been making apochromatic lenses since at least the 1950s (process lenses are apochromatic) and they have been making lenses with aspherical elements since at least the 1970s (Konica made a zoom with an aspherical element) so I'm still pretty sure this lens shouldn't cost 7 grand. It probably has exotic glass types but even so, it can't cost so much to make it has to cost 7 grand, surely?

I suppose Leica reasoned they won't sell them in any kind of large volume and the higher the price tag the higher the perceived quality in the minds of their niche customers.

I wonder how much Samyang would have to charge if they made the same lens design with the same materials?

If only we knew how much it costs Leica to produce this lens, then we would have some sense of how much markup they are putting on it purely because of the Leica name.

I wonder how many copies of this lens Leica expect to sell?



Well if you compare the Leica noctilux 50mm f0.95 with the new Slr magic hyperprime 50mm t0.95 they have just produced which is a noctilux tweaked to get a bit more light out of it and it has less CA than the Leica. The Leica Noctilux goes for about $10K on the Evil bay, the Slr magic tweaked copy is only $3K.
So that gives you an indication of production cost and the markup Leica put on thier lenses at least.


Interesting, that red dot sure is an expensive little piece of plastic.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hood wrote:


Well if you compare the Leica noctilux 50mm f0.95 with the new Slr magic hyperprime 50mm t0.95 they have just produced which is a noctilux tweaked to get a bit more light out of it and it has less CA than the Leica. The Leica Noctilux goes for about $10K on the Evil bay, the Slr magic tweaked copy is only $3K.
So that gives you an indication of production cost and the markup Leica put on thier lenses at least.


SLR Magic is famous for selling $30 Fujian c-mounts for $130. So I very much doubt they've "tweaked" Leica Noctilux. More likely they've "tweaked" something much cheaper and slapped 3x price tag. Photozone review of SLR magic is not that glowing. In any case, if I wanted a lens like that, I'd have rather bought Leica, at least it will hold value. Good luck reselling that SLR Magic for 3K, you'll get 1K tops.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Hood wrote:


Well if you compare the Leica noctilux 50mm f0.95 with the new Slr magic hyperprime 50mm t0.95 they have just produced which is a noctilux tweaked to get a bit more light out of it and it has less CA than the Leica. The Leica Noctilux goes for about $10K on the Evil bay, the Slr magic tweaked copy is only $3K.
So that gives you an indication of production cost and the markup Leica put on thier lenses at least.


SLR Magic is famous for selling $30 Fujian c-mounts for $130. So I very much doubt they've "tweaked" Leica Noctilux. More likely they've "tweaked" something much cheaper and slapped 3x price tag. Photozone review of SLR magic is not that glowing. In any case, if I wanted a lens like that, I'd have rather bought Leica, at least it will hold value. Good luck reselling that SLR Magic for 3K, you'll get 1K tops.


Do not be confused by thier previous f0.95 Nokton hyperprime, that is only an $800 lens.
This all new T0.95 was built from the ground up based of the leica nocti. It uses exotic glass, each one is custom calibrated etc.
Here is the shootout against the leica nocti:
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevehuffphoto.com%2F2012%2F02%2F28%2Fquick-comparison-slr-magic-50-t0-95-vs-voigtlander-50-f1-1-on-the-leica-m9%2F&ei=J3GsT6npNeediAfT9MGsAw&usg=AFQjCNHexW43jQqQha9JRuyyYl61VyBA7w

Judge for your self. Wink


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hood wrote:

Do not be confused by thier previous f0.95 Nokton hyperprime, that is only an $800 lens.
This all new T0.95 was built from the ground up based of the leica nocti. It uses exotic glass, each one is custom calibrated etc.
Here is the shootout against the leica nocti:
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevehuffphoto.com%2F2012%2F02%2F28%2Fquick-comparison-slr-magic-50-t0-95-vs-voigtlander-50-f1-1-on-the-leica-m9%2F&ei=J3GsT6npNeediAfT9MGsAw&usg=AFQjCNHexW43jQqQha9JRuyyYl61VyBA7w

Judge for your self. Wink


Steve Huff is sponsored by SLR Magic. Before the deal happened, he wrote the scathing review of their Noktor hyperprime (which was rebadged Senko c-mount btw), but after the deal all SLR Magic products became wonderful or at least "fun". I don't see any fun in paying $135 for the lens that is freely available for $30, but that's just me.

Anyway, returning to their Leica M lens, here is photozone's review, which I trust infinitely more than Steve's: http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/732-slrmagic50t095 The lens seems legitimate, but corner performance sucks. I wouldn't pay 3K for it. Then again, some people pay 2K for used c-mounts, so that's relative.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I find it funny how many people write off slr magic because of thier tweaking and rebranding of the fujian 35mm f1.7
I now own both the fujian with adaptor and the slr e mount version. I prefer the slr one. That and I believe this lens provides a use you have over looked.
I owned my Nex5 for over 12 month before looking into new lenses. I heard about old lenses on adapters but felt dawnted. When I found the slr magic lenses it was the perfect bridging solution to my learning curve.
Now look at me haha.
I believe this also accounts for a large portion of nex users.
And btw - Steve announces many times in his review that slr are no-longer a sponser. He keeps thier banner up because he likes thier products (and secretly I think this guarantees him first look at new products)
Slr have also produced thier 28mm f2.8 which is also a very good lens as well as a bunch of good ones for m4/3rds.
I'm not sure why everyone mocks this company. Sure they produce some fun toy lenses, but they also produce some great cost effective usable glass too.
I only comment 'cause I have some of their lenses.
By the way thier adjustable macro focusing hellocoid is great too. Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Senko c-mount 50mm after hearing this...
It is an untrue rumor. The Senko vignetts so horribly on Nex you can't even get a usable image, slr would have had to tweaked the crap outa that to even get close to the results I have seen from the nokton.
Eitherway, my original point here was in relation to ians question of how much these lenses would be if produced by someone else.
As it stands slr are making a lens touted as a copy of the noctilux, so it was relevent to his post to point out the price difference between the two lenses. Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

I wonder how much Samyang would have to charge if they made the same lens design with the same materials?


Does Samyang have the same craftsmanship?
To make top quality optical glass, you need highly specialized workers, not just the casual guy around.
Does Samyang have the structures to train the needed optical engineers? Will Samyang pay them with the high German salaries that
such best-in-the-world optical engineers will demand?
Can Samyang afford the same unique optical glass that Leica uses, and for which they have very secret recipes, result of centennial researches and experience?
What about the tools, does Samyang have the platinum pots where Leica mixes their glass to avoid impurities?

Ian, why you keep talking of making high precision, top quality lenses as if it was as easy as making bread?
It's not, if it was that easy, everybody would make best top quality lenses at the price of a drinking glass.
If it doesn't happen, it's because it can't.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Probably a good lens Smile


As long as I find joy in shooting with €25 Russian optics, my wallet should not be affraid Wink


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is always the same. The last 5 % on the mile costs the money.

You should look here

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/10/Leica-creates-M9-Hermes-edition-18MP-Full-Frame-Rangefinder-camera

and you will find that the price for the 50mm lens will be a bargain offer. But you can be sure they will sell all the cams and lenses because there are enough rich people around the world.

Wink


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rolf wrote:
It is always the same. The last 5 % on the mile costs the money.

You should look here

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/10/Leica-creates-M9-Hermes-edition-18MP-Full-Frame-Rangefinder-camera

and you will find that the price for the 50mm lens will be a bargain offer. But you can be sure they will sell all the cams and lenses because there are enough rich people around the world.

Wink


Well it does come with a pair of white gloves ...

http://vimeo.com/41870964


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shocked Who want to sell your kidney for this lens? Shocked

Wonder how it performs wide open Cool


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
haha another pricey stuff from leica and all people on the net are going crazy about the price Smile it is like complaining about price of Ferrari cars


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My M9 friends are not directly complain, but they can't understand the price tag Laughing


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Recipe is simple: if you can afford it, enjoy it, if you can't afford it, forget about it and don't become envious of those who can.
Luckily the offer of photographic products is wide enough to meet all budgets, and good quality products are available also at affordable prices.
In photography, the final difference is always made by the artist. Tools can make it easier or harder, but they never prevented a talent to surface or a dabbler to demonstrate his lack of talent.


PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Recipe is simple: if you can afford it, enjoy it, if you can't afford it, forget about it and don't become envious of those who can.
Luckily the offer of photographic products is wide enough to meet all budgets, and good quality products are available also at affordable prices.
In photography, the final difference is always made by the artist. Tools can make it easier or harder, but they never prevented a talent to surface or a dabbler to demonstrate his lack of talent.



+1


Furthermore, I attest that shooting with certain limitations increases creativity.
With limitations I mean those things that inhibit you to take a photograph: slow lens (aperture), minimum focussing distance, any kind of technical flaw. It's only when you know how difficult something can be that you also can appreciate if something is really good. I see this with my Nikon lenses: the more I use Russian optics, the better the image quality of the Nikkors becomes Very Happy And the Russians aren't bad at all...
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