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Legs and heels, Samyang 35/1.4
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Legs and heels, Samyang 35/1.4 Reply with quote
Ok guys, since you all seem to be gentelmen here, i managed to convince my better half to pose for me and allow me to post some of the pictures here. Attila your pictures of Christina played a big part in this.
Please any C&C is really welcomed, this is our first try at it. The pictures have minimal and basic PP, mostly exposure compensation, some cropping in some of them and distortion control. I didn t use any software to correct the skin imperfections, keep in mind that the "model" is 46 years old!
Open toe shoes are very problematic, because the part above the toes is really tight, to prevent the toes to slip forward, the pictures of open toe shoes found on the web are all PP-ed in this regard. Only natural light of course, at home, the session took an hour and a half, just while both of our kids had their afternoon activities.

Tomas
#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12

#13

#14


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Beautiful photos. Thanks. Your wife should be a leg model on hosiery packaging.

I wish I had legs like that at 45 - ooh, that came out wrong didnt it?

More more!!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
#1,#5,#6 #7 are my favorites , nice to see followers Smile thank you!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nice job, #4#7#8#11 for me


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice start, your wife has gorgeous legs Smile . I like the BW, it works well.
I think you need to work more on the composition, framing, and lighting. And on narrowing down the selection Wink
My vote goes to #8


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
Beautiful photos. Thanks. Your wife should be a leg model on hosiery packaging.

I wish I had legs like that at 45 - ooh, that came out wrong didnt it?

More more!!


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy That s fine...for me...just don t ask me to take pics of you Laughing

I will add some more later.

Tomas

Last edited by tomasg on Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
#1,#5,#6 #7 are my favorites , nice to see followers Smile thank you!


Yes it s all your fault Attila Smile May i ask if you would run some of them on the software you use for your pictures, if i send you the originals?

Tomas


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
nice job, #4#7#8#11 for me


Thank you!

Tomas


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Nice start, your wife has gorgeous legs Smile . I like the BW, it works well.
I think you need to work more on the composition, framing, and lighting. And on narrowing down the selection Wink
My vote goes to #8


Thank you Orio, but please can you be more specific? Don t worry you can be harsh in your critique, Also, if it s ok for you i would like to send you some originals, so you can reframe them a bit, do some PP on them.

Tomas


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes nice series, but lacking selection indeed. There are great ones within,
only show those, as the other dilute the effect IMHO.

Great legs indeed!


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Klaus, as you already know i was never good at selecting the more representative ones, this is one of the reasons i like to post here, i ll post another set later and then you ll all help me the better ones.

Tomas


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
Orio wrote:
Nice start, your wife has gorgeous legs Smile . I like the BW, it works well.
I think you need to work more on the composition, framing, and lighting. And on narrowing down the selection Wink
My vote goes to #8

Thank you Orio, but please can you be more specific? Don t worry you can be harsh in your critique, Also, if it s ok for you i would like to send you some originals, so you can reframe them a bit, do some PP on them.
Tomas


Ok Smile

I begin with the lighting/exposure.
Here's your photo # 3:



Photos #1 2 3 4 have (in different degrees) all the same problem, legs skin looks dark. It's not dark in absolute terms, actually it's correct (Zone 6),
but it's placed against a background that is 2 stops brighter so this makes them look dark (photography is always relative).
The problem with dark skin is that it looks bad. It looks unhealthy, lacking life and sparkle.
You want to make skin look light to make it appealing.

I bet that you let your camera decide the exposure, and the camera was fooled by the white background, so it darkened it of about 1 stop.
In fact, the zone value of your background in #1 2 3 4 is Zone 8, which means "White with detail". It is about one stop darker than absolute white.
There is a two stop difference in #1 2 3 4 that is in favour of the background. You need to invert that relation in order to make the photo look good.

And that (inverted relation) is what happened with this other photo, #5 :



Here, there were more dark objects in the frame, that balanced the white wall, so your camera could measure the correct exposure.
And let's see what happened:

Skin fell on Zone 7, which is the zone of highlighted Caucasian skin. This is good, because the legs receive direct window light,
so the placement in Zone 7 feels correct
The wall, thanks to this exposure raise, now falls between Zones 8 and 9 (part is on 8 part is on 9). This is perfect placement.
The sofa falls in Zone 4, dark Gray. This is also perfect.

Now you can see that there is a 3 stops gap between the legs and their background, but this time the gap is IN FAVOUR of the legs,
and this makes them look good! They look like the real subject of the photo - which they are!
Wham - light spot on the main actor!

So what to learn from this experience?
1- NEVER let your camera decide your exposure. ALWAYS do take manual exposure of your scene, and use camera in Manual mode;
2- Human skin looks pleasant when it's bright. But in order to do that, placing a correct absolute value may not be enough.
You need to also take the background in consideration, and, when photographing human skin over a background that is brighter,
make sure that the skin feels at least "bright enough".

You may ask "but how do I make the skin bright enough when I photograph it over a white background?
The answer is: either you raise the exposure to make the skin look good, and let the White lose (burn), OR,
you use light modifiers - which is what I recommend.
Depending on the situation, it can be a reflective panel, or a flash light. But the situation in the photos #1 2 3 4
will hardly look good without a light modifier.

I hope this helps, when I have time I'll cover the composition and framing Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Super Orio, very nicely explained! You should teach that in photo classes!!


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Super Orio, very nicely explained! You should teach that in photo classes!!


Thanks Klaus! Yes, it is in fact what I am going to do in the future.
Starting October, I am going to take a 1 year course in Florence that will give me a European Union recognized Photography Degree,
which will give me the qualification not only to work as photographer, but also to teach photography in schools.
When I have the Diploma, I will open a Photography school Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Orio for the first part, it s really very apriciated and i got what you say.Yes, of course the camera underexposed, not buy much on this one, only a third of a stop (it did more on some others).

No amount of PP will save wrong lightning, anyway just as an exercise:
#1 Original out of cam:

#2 ver1

#3 ver2


We did the session in our little crammed appartment, one has to work with what it has. We ll definitely do some outdoor ones in the future. I don t have any "pro" tools, but i am a DIY guy, so next time a big withe panel is on the list.
Oh and the name of the "model", "wife" (we are not married) is Claudia.
Even if it s just a hobby and one has to look at it like a couple having fun, i am still a bit of a perfectionist, so i am always eager to learn and improve, keep them coming Orio.

Tomas


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In the last two the legs are definitely improved, but the background has become a little bit flashy Smile

You don't need a hi tech equipment: a 20 Eur used cheap flash, a flash cord extension and an old white cotton cloth will do.
Place the flash on the ground, just outside of what you see in the frame. Hang the white cloth in front of it somehow.
If flash can set angle, use an angle for a tele lens (such as 90mm) and rotate it so that it is directed towards the back of the legs
but not towards the wall that is visible in the viewframe. The sofa will help too, acting as screen to protect the wall.

That's it, even if you don't have a flash lightmeter you can quickly find a good power setting with a couple of test shots.
You don't want to cancel all the shadows, just make them weaker so that the legs look soft and desireable but still maintaining a
dimensional aspect (flat legs are not that popular Laughing )

Perhaps even a panel may do, if the light from the window is strong enough to provide good reflection fill.

P.S. I was forgetting an important trick. Try with a red or orange filter in front of the lens!
This comes from the old school of us native film shooters Very Happy At the time, no Photoshop could rescue us Wink


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting and helpful tips from Orio, Good luck with your degree - although you dont need luck.

Keep it up tomasg, lets see more.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
In the last two the legs are definitely improved, but the background has become a little bit flashy Smile

You don't need a hi tech equipment: a 20 Eur used cheap flash, a flash cord extension and an old white cotton cloth will do.
Place the flash on the ground, just outside of what you see in the frame. Hang the white cloth in front of it somehow.
If flash can set angle, use an angle for a tele lens (such as 90mm) and rotate it so that it is directed towards the back of the legs
but not towards the wall that is visible in the viewframe. The sofa will help too, acting as screen to protect the wall.

That's it, even if you don't have a flash lightmeter you can quickly find a good power setting with a couple of test shots.
You don't want to cancel all the shadows, just make them weaker so that the legs look soft and desireable but still maintaining a
dimensional aspect (flat legs are not that popular Laughing )

Perhaps even a panel may do, if the light from the window is strong enough to provide good reflection fill.

P.S. I was forgetting an important trick. Try with a red or orange filter in front of the lens!
This comes from the old school of us native film shooters Very Happy At the time, no Photoshop could rescue us Wink


Thanks again Orio! In fact i have an Nikon SB700 flash, it works wirelessly so i can put it almost anywhere, it has it s own support, it can be angled up-down....it s just that i even didn t thought to use it. Rolling Eyes I know..i know...but understand...i was a bit distracted Smile
Good old filters, i still have them, but i thought they have no use on sensors? Rolling Eyes

Oh and Orio good luck with your new "profession" nice to hear that!

Tomas


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nice legs Tomas and great lesson Orio, thank you both Wink

Orio wrote:

...
2- Human skin looks pleasant when it's bright. But in order to do that, placing a correct absolute value may not be enough.
You need to also take the background in consideration, and, when photographing human skin over a background that is brighter,
make sure that the skin feels at least "bright enough".
...


how about if the person has black / dark brown skin?
this is not meant sarcastically or critically, but factually: I have taken a few photos of people with dark brown skin during day in tropical lands, that is with very bright sky / background and found it very hard how to expose so that the whole photo looked ok. Some I converted to B&W only so that I could up the red / orange parts, that is the colors of the face, to make the whole photo look better ( if I knew PPing better sure I'd not need to go B&W, but it seemed the easiest way? )


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok, as promised, here is a second set:
#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12

#13

#14

#15

#16


Those have to be selected as well, like in the first set. I added one in colour, for me it ads more problems, though the red toe nails and the black of the shoes make a nice contrast.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:

how about if the person has black / dark brown skin?


Light brown skin (such as Obama) = make it fall in Zone 5
Dark brown skin (such as Obama's wife) = Zone 4
Black skin (like some Central Africans) = Zone 3

The rest of the scene should be arranged accordingly. Obviously, if the background is very bright, you will have a contrast problem.
Solutions: either change background Rolling Eyes or use flash and lighten the person's face - in order to be able to stop down the iris without
making the face fall into Zone 1 (=absolute black)
After you take the shot this way, you can later in Lightroom (or when printing, if using film), underexpose your final image/print
to restore the correct value on the person's face.

P.S. The above of course applies to posed portraits. If taking snapshots, you don't have much choice other than use a red or orange
filter on the lens and do spot meter on the guy's face, then:
if light brown = use value indicated by the meter, if dark brown = stop down 1 stop compared to meter result, if black skin = stop down 2 stops compared to meter result.

Last edited by Orio on Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:27 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In addition to the lighting tips Orio is giving (which are amazing, btw! you've made me reconsider how I light/frame skin), I had another question. Since you're shooting for black and white, which can be rather unforgiving/unflattering to skin, showing every blemish/vein/etc, why not try a soft focus lens or filter? Your wife's legs look fantastic, but I wonder if a bit of softening would make them look even better?


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
strangelove wrote:
In addition to the lighting tips Orio is giving (which are amazing, btw! you've made me reconsider how I light/frame skin), I had another question. Since you're shooting for black and white, which can be rather unforgiving/unflattering to skin, showing every blemish/vein/etc, why not try a soft focus lens or filter? Your wife's legs look fantastic, but I wonder if a bit of softening would make them look even better?


Soft focus filter also has the additional advantage that it mildly lowers overall contrast (to know how much, spot-meter the different parts without and with the filter and compare).


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I only thought of it because I learned in my film classes that soft filters are incredibly common in cinematography since seeing someone's face that huge can be rather unflattering if perfectly sharp... Apparently, some famous actresses even have specific filters written into their contracts because they feel they look best with them


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
strangelove wrote:
In addition to the lighting tips Orio is giving (which are amazing, btw! you've made me reconsider how I light/frame skin), I had another question. Since you're shooting for black and white, which can be rather unforgiving/unflattering to skin, showing every blemish/vein/etc, why not try a soft focus lens or filter? Your wife's legs look fantastic, but I wonder if a bit of softening would make them look even better?


Thank you very much, for both the compliments and critique.
Yes, i will try that, i don t have such filter, i ll buy one or i ll just make one myself, it shouldn t be too difficult. I did tried to use wide apertures on some, to "soften" the skin, but that implies all sort of other photographic issues and of course doesn t solve the problem on the parts that are in focus, maybe just make it easyer to use software to correct it.

Tomas
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