Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Kiron and Komine Vivitars
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Manual focus lenses are just getting more and more popular, and harder to find. In the last two days I've been in about 12 charity shops, and 3 pawn shops. There's 10 in one local town high street. I picked up a Praktica with a 50mm Tessar and the vintage Purma together in one shop where they know me and keep the cameras until I've seen them. The only other lenses I've seen were a horrid Canon powerzoom AF thing, on a basic film EOS of some sort for £5 and a Minolta AF 35-70 on a 3000i for £6, and I've got that lens.
But talking to the ladies in the shops they say that there is little camera gear being donated, and I'm now not the only person who trawls the charity shops after lenses. And many of the other buyers just buy the lot without really looking at them. Guess where they end up ? ebay is my guess. Interestingly I didn't even see one film compact camera, apparently these other buyers take them as well.
I've been very lucky over the last few years, but there's little good stuff to be found now, unless you're bloody quick!


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, that Minolta AF 35-70 would go straight on ebay, probably fetch 50ukp, maybe a little more, they fit Sony DSLRs.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, but how many dogs do you have to accumulate to find those gems? I'm also of the opinion that there aren't many gems to be had in third party lenses, especially zooms.

What's the sense in buying 10 cheap lenses in the hope one of them is good? What makes more sense - spend 100ukp accumulating a few cheap crappy lenses or spend the 100ukp on one very good lens?


And when exactly was it that I advised the very same to you? Sometime, I think, at the beginning of your cheap lens collecting and world record number of bad copies.

I agree with Ian's last six posts, but the ones before that are hogwash. Vivitar produced some very good lenses, especially for the price, and that's one reason there are so many of them out there. But as with any lens manufacturer, there will be some that aren't as good as others. I too have paid attention to the manufactures, with Komine -28- being my preference. I have a couple of copies of the 28/2.8 Close Focus and they are wonderful (I can prove it). However, the Series 1 lens that got the most praise was/is the Tokina made 90/2.5 Macro; considered one of the very sharpest lenses of its time and even still today. While the 70-210 Series 1 zooms do seem to perform well (I've never had one), they aren't quite up to the level of primes. I chose in 1976 (give or take a year) to sell my only zoom in favor of a 200/3.5 Vivitar and I feel the same today about zooms, with few exceptions.

Take Ian's advice and target only the lenses that you've learned about here and save yourself a lot of money in the long run. If you really like zooms, then be prepared to accept less than optimal image quality. But then again, if you enjoy the hunt and like finding "values", then go for it, but just be prepared to learn why they're cheap.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Kiron and Komine Vivitars Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
cbaldeck wrote:
Is it the sense among Vivitar fans that Kiron and Komine made Vivitars are especially worth looking for?


Honestly, I don't think any Vivitars (with the odd exception) are worth looking for. Simply because they aren't as good as the major manufacturers lenses. I'd take a Pentax, Olympus, Nikon, Minolta, Konica etc over a Vivitar any day. Also, Vivitar's QC was far behind the major makers so there is the risk of getting a real dog. I just don't see the sense in buying Vivitar when you can pick up better lenses by the major makers for similar prices. For example, the Vivitar Close Focus 2.8/28 is a good lens but you can have a better lens for the same sort of money, the Konica and Minolta 3.5/28s are both significantly better and cost the same sort of prices, and the chances of getting a lemon copy from the major makers is a lot smaller than with Vivitar, I had two copies of the Vivitar CF 2.8/28, one was good, the other was crap.


I stand by what I said. I've yet to find a Minolta, Pentax, Konica, Olympus, Nikkor, Zeiss etc lens that was a lemon, but I've only had two out of a dozen Vivitars that were any good, and even those were not as good as other lenses that can be had for around the same price. The two good ones were one of the copies of the 2.8/28 CF and the V2 Tokina made S1 3.5/70-210.

In the case of the 2.8/28 CF, it's good, but no better than the Pentacon 2.8/28 which is cheaper, I don't think it's better than the Cimko 2.8/28 either and that's cheaper as well. I don't think it's as good as the Konica 3.5/28 or Minolta 3.5/38, and both of those are cheap and very common.

With the S1 3.5/70-210, I suspect the v1 is slightly better than the v2 I had, judging by samples I've seen from the v1 and my experience with the v2. It's a good lens, one of the better zooms of it's era, but again, there are better lenses that can be had around the same price. The Mamiya 3.8/80-200 I think is better, cheap but not so common. The Konica UC Zoom-Hexanon I think is better too and can be found cheap. I also thought the Tokina made MC Rolleinar 4/80-200 was better.

As fermy said, better is a strange concept, but my experiences lead me to say that there are only a few Vivitars worth having and their QC is at a lower level than the major makers. I must have shot 30 135mm lenses and the only one that was no good was that damn Vivitar S1 2.3/135, still one of the worst lenses I've seen, I really doubt a lens with such awful IQ ever left the Konica, Minolta, Olympus, Pentax, Nikon etc factories, so I think it's always worth bearing in mind you might get a dog with Vivitar.

I don't appreciate you getting high and mighty about any 'advice' you might have given. The way you delivered it and the mocking tone didn't endear you to me in the slightest and ever since I haven't had any interest in anything you have to say. I'm not going to engage you in any kind of argument but I will stand by what I said when you start calling it hogwash.

Let's agree to differ and not bother getting into another argument, no-one will gain anything from it.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
Manual focus lenses are just getting more and more popular, and harder to find. In the last two days I've been in about 12 charity shops, and 3 pawn shops. There's 10 in one local town high street. I picked up a Praktica with a 50mm Tessar and the vintage Purma together in one shop where they know me and keep the cameras until I've seen them. The only other lenses I've seen were a horrid Canon powerzoom AF thing, on a basic film EOS of some sort for £5 and a Minolta AF 35-70 on a 3000i for £6, and I've got that lens.
But talking to the ladies in the shops they say that there is little camera gear being donated, and I'm now not the only person who trawls the charity shops after lenses. And many of the other buyers just buy the lot without really looking at them. Guess where they end up ? ebay is my guess. Interestingly I didn't even see one film compact camera, apparently these other buyers take them as well.
I've been very lucky over the last few years, but there's little good stuff to be found now, unless you're bloody quick!


What's odd at boot sales is film has dried up.....not so long ago I was buying it for 10p-30p a roll, and some regular dealers had OOD rolls in the hot sun for £1 Rolling Eyes ..now even thats gone. Shocked


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've noticed the prices of film on ebay is going up too, even small mixed lots of old cheap C41 films are attracted a few bids now and fetching good prices. I guess it's because it's hard to buy film on the high street now and when you do find it, it's expensive, my local Asda has 24exp Fujicolor 200, I forget if it is 4.99 or 5.99 a roll, but I'm certainly not buying it at that price.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I've noticed the prices of film on ebay is going up too, even small mixed lots of old cheap C41 films are attracted a few bids now and fetching good prices. I guess it's because it's hard to buy film on the high street now and when you do find it, it's expensive, my local Asda has 24exp Fujicolor 200, I forget if it is 4.99 or 5.99 a roll, but I'm certainly not buying it at that price.


Clear out your fridge and get some easy money...£141 for this lot erm so that's where all the boot sale film goes Shocked :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Job-Lot-of-Film-35mm-APS-120mm-Fuji-Kodak-Ilford-Out-of-Date-/300825583883?pt=UK_Photography_Film&hash=item460a9a210b&nma=true&si=aNtp7%2FbTnxBEKeZzcm6NoiL24iY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Funny you should say that, I'm in the process of listing on ebay a load of film that is useless to me but people will pay silly money for. Tonight I am listing some rolls of Kodak SO-115 Technical Pan, TMAX P3200, Konica SR-V 3200, Kodak Vericolor, Kodachrome 25 and Kodak High Speed Infrared. Should bring some nice income to spend on some decent film.

I'm pretty sure people have been going into Poundland and buying the Agfa film and listing it on ebay for 3.99 a roll, bastards. Sad


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Funny you should say that, I'm in the process of listing on ebay a load of film that is useless to me but people will pay silly money for. Tonight I am listing some rolls of Kodak SO-115 Technical Pan, TMAX P3200, Konica SR-V 3200, Kodak Vericolor, Kodachrome 25 and Kodak High Speed Infrared. Should bring some nice income to spend on some decent film.

I'm pretty sure people have been going into Poundland and buying the Agfa film and listing it on ebay for 3.99 a roll, bastards. Sad


I didn't expect this to go so cheap so didn't bother bidding...ok stuff for lens testing and works out at about 66p a roll.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuji-Colour-Camera-Spools-/221167362057?pt=UK_Photography_Film&hash=item337e9a2009&nma=true&si=aNtp7%2FbTnxBEKeZzcm6NoiL24iY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Kiron and Komine Vivitars Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
cbaldeck wrote:
Is it the sense among Vivitar fans that Kiron and Komine made Vivitars are especially worth looking for?


Honestly, I don't think any Vivitars (with the odd exception) are worth looking for. Simply because they aren't as good as the major manufacturers lenses. I'd take a Pentax, Olympus, Nikon, Minolta, Konica etc over a Vivitar any day. Also, Vivitar's QC was far behind the major makers so there is the risk of getting a real dog. I just don't see the sense in buying Vivitar when you can pick up better lenses by the major makers for similar prices. For example, the Vivitar Close Focus 2.8/28 is a good lens but you can have a better lens for the same sort of money, the Konica and Minolta 3.5/28s are both significantly better and cost the same sort of prices, and the chances of getting a lemon copy from the major makers is a lot smaller than with Vivitar, I had two copies of the Vivitar CF 2.8/28, one was good, the other was crap.

I dont know which company made it but the vivitar series 1 28mm f1.9 is an excellent lens. I had one for about 5 years and kept it until I finally found something better which was the smc pentax k 28mm f2.0


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Funny you should say that, I'm in the process of listing on ebay a load of film that is useless to me but people will pay silly money for. Tonight I am listing some rolls of Kodak SO-115 Technical Pan, TMAX P3200, Konica SR-V 3200, Kodak Vericolor, Kodachrome 25 and Kodak High Speed Infrared. Should bring some nice income to spend on some decent film.

I'm pretty sure people have been going into Poundland and buying the Agfa film and listing it on ebay for 3.99 a roll, bastards. Sad


I didn't expect this to go so cheap so didn't bother bidding...ok stuff for lens testing and works out at about 66p a roll.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuji-Colour-Camera-Spools-/221167362057?pt=UK_Photography_Film&hash=item337e9a2009&nma=true&si=aNtp7%2FbTnxBEKeZzcm6NoiL24iY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


At serious risk of placing myself in target zone for nasty criticism, I can report the following:

It is winter weather here now where I live. The weather is fairly cold and oftentimes inclement. This means the occasional fire in the fireplace.

I use old 35mm film to start fireplace fires. You need only to touch it off ever so slightly with a small flame and it goes up quickly, effectively, and it burns quite hot. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Funny you should say that, I'm in the process of listing on ebay a load of film that is useless to me but people will pay silly money for. Tonight I am listing some rolls of Kodak SO-115 Technical Pan, TMAX P3200, Konica SR-V 3200, Kodak Vericolor, Kodachrome 25 and Kodak High Speed Infrared. Should bring some nice income to spend on some decent film.

I'm pretty sure people have been going into Poundland and buying the Agfa film and listing it on ebay for 3.99 a roll, bastards. Sad


I didn't expect this to go so cheap so didn't bother bidding...ok stuff for lens testing and works out at about 66p a roll.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuji-Colour-Camera-Spools-/221167362057?pt=UK_Photography_Film&hash=item337e9a2009&nma=true&si=aNtp7%2FbTnxBEKeZzcm6NoiL24iY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


I saw that and didn't bother bidding either, sometimes these large lots can be had at good prices.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
guardian wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Funny you should say that, I'm in the process of listing on ebay a load of film that is useless to me but people will pay silly money for. Tonight I am listing some rolls of Kodak SO-115 Technical Pan, TMAX P3200, Konica SR-V 3200, Kodak Vericolor, Kodachrome 25 and Kodak High Speed Infrared. Should bring some nice income to spend on some decent film.

I'm pretty sure people have been going into Poundland and buying the Agfa film and listing it on ebay for 3.99 a roll, bastards. Sad


I didn't expect this to go so cheap so didn't bother bidding...ok stuff for lens testing and works out at about 66p a roll.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuji-Colour-Camera-Spools-/221167362057?pt=UK_Photography_Film&hash=item337e9a2009&nma=true&si=aNtp7%2FbTnxBEKeZzcm6NoiL24iY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


At serious risk of placing myself in target zone for nasty criticism, I can report the following:

It is winter weather here now where I live. The weather is fairly cold and oftentimes inclement. This means the occasional fire in the fireplace.

I use old 35mm film to start fireplace fires. You need only to touch it off ever so slightly with a small flame and it goes up quickly, effectively, and it burns quite hot. Wink


What? Why not use a firelighter or a rolled up piece of newspaper?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
****I use old 35mm film to start fireplace fires. You need only to touch it off ever so slightly with a small flame and it goes up quickly, effectively, and it burns quite hot***

Huh!.....Post it to the poor and needy instead Wink


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, my view on Vivitar is this: it is a second tier brand, so all else being equal (price, specs, condition), I'd take a lens from 1st tier manufacturer (Canon, Konica, Pentax, etc) over Vivitar and I would take Vivitar lens over 3rd tier brand Makinon, early Cosina, Cimko, etc. However, they've been ambitious and produced some lenses that do rival or surpass offerings from 1st tier brands. For example, any macro from Vivitar is at least on the level of top brands and quite often is simply unmatched. Bokina and 100/105mm Kiron made macros are legendary.

I don't share the view that Vivitars are not worth bothering with. To me all the Vivitars that I had passed "good enough" test, so I can see myself shooting with them under some circumstances. I think the reputation of Komine made Vivitars is well deserved, at least 2.8/28mm non-close focus Vivitar that I have is very good. I had less luck with Kiron made ones: two 2.0/28mm Kiron's that passed through my hands had stuck aperture (well known issue) and wide open performance was nothing two write home about especially in comparison with Canon FD 2.0/28mm. Again, all their Kiron/Komine macros are nothing short of excellent.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's what I was trying to say, that there were some really good Vivitars but most weren't as good as the major maker's. If you can find major maker's lenses at the same price, then I'd take them over the Vivitars.

Why saying that makes the troll come out of the woodwork again I dunno.

Be careful fermy, he might start on you now you expressed the same view as me Wink


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Well, my view on Vivitar is this: it is a second tier brand, so all else being equal (price, specs, condition), I'd take a lens from 1st tier manufacturer (Canon, Konica, Pentax, etc) over Vivitar and I would take Vivitar lens over 3rd tier brand Makinon, early Cosina, Cimko, etc. However, they've been ambitious and produced some lenses that do rival or surpass offerings from 1st tier brands. For example, any macro from Vivitar is at least on the level of top brands and quite often is simply unmatched. Bokina and 100/105mm Kiron made macros are legendary.


I was just trolling through this thread when I came across your comments. I agree, fermy, now you're safe. There has been no argument about Vivitar being a marketer of third party lenses. As far as those go, I think they did a decent job of providing quality through their outsourcing of the manufacture. Most certainly not all of their lenses were great, as can probably also be said about major manufacturer lenses, but those that were good did develop decent reputations and can usually be read about in MFlenses. I thought I heard a complaint not so much about some good, some not, but of quality control, which is very much different than the point you made. Now, in keeping with the holiday spirit and not wanting to upset anyone, I'm not going to mention any names, but someone said
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Why saying that makes the troll come out of the woodwork again I dunno.
, so I want to explain.

I've only ever heard of but one Vivitar Komine Close Focus 28mm lens being a bad copy (actually I think it was two, but the story has changed) and only one 135mm Series 1 lens being a bad copy. Coincidentally those two were owned by the same person. Bad luck for sure. Now, I won't even bring up the issue of how the Series 1 lens needs to be used in order to achieve best performance.... in fact, please forget I mentioned it. Now the problem that I have is that in the absence of other such quality control complaints from posters, and despite several other MF'ers (manual focus -ers, that is) offering high marks for both of those lenses, such unnamed person never misses an opportunity to criticize those Vivitars. I really don't take it personally if someone doesn't like a lens that I like, but do find it annoying when one always speaks of a limited and isolated experience as if it is the norm. Perhaps I'm wrong and others have had problems with those two lenses, but I do not recall hearing about it. My own experience with Vivitar lenses, and in fact all lenses, has been overwhelmingly positive. I can think of only two that I had problems with (one of which Louis is trying to fix). Had I experienced numerous examples of bad copies across several brands, I would question my buying methods at the least, and possibly look further.

So this is all about understanding perspective, context, and anomalies versus the rule. In the case you haven't noticed, I have written this to clear up my position and I have tried to be light and humorous with no real animosity. I rather enjoy taking pokes sometimes and I don't take offense to being called a troll. I don't take offense to much unless it is at a very personal level, and certainly all this lens talk can't be that serious, can it? Merry Christmas to all (especially Ian) and best of the holiday spirit to those that don't celebrate Christmas.

Last edited by woodrim on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe we should have a thread "What's your worst Vivitar lens" Wink


PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think that out of the 6 or 7 various Vivitars I've got there is one that is poor, a few that are 'good' and the 28's that I love. I've recently got the 2.8 / 135 and I'm liking that as well. I've got better, but it's still a reliable lens, I know what it will deliver. And that's always a bonus.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
casualcollector wrote:
.................The Komine name........... it's an alias of Nittoh Kogaku .........K. K.


Hi Casualcollector.

For me too. Nittoh made the konica C35 and her famous lens (a Komine one).
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2