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good choice for a first 80-85m?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: good choice for a first 80-85m? Reply with quote
So I generally just lurk these forums as an amazing encyclopedia of obscure lenses (you guys are awesome!), but the amount of info out there on this question has overwhelmed me and I was hoping I could get some advice on a good 85mm.

some basic info: I'm shooting on a Canon T3i (cropped sensor) and primarily using it for video, and I already have a few lenses between 17mm to 50mm. I've decided my next lens needs to be in the 80-85mm range so I have something for good closeups. The problem is, these lenses are a little pricier, so while I could pick up a few 17mm and 50mm lenses to experiment with cheaply, I feel like an 85mm is more of an investment (other than maybe the Jupiter 9, but the sample variety seems to be a big problem from what I've read).

So if you could recommend only one 80-85mm lens for someone still relatively new to mf lenses, what would it be (without breaking the bank)?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Samyang 85/1.4 should be your next purchase.

You shot video, and the samyang is a manual lens. 250-300usd.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hoanpham wrote:
The Samyang 85/1.4 should be your next purchase.

You shot video, and the samyang is a manual lens. 250-300usd.

Seconded.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It really depends on the use you need it for.
The J-9 would be a very wise choice: it's cheap, quite fast, ranges between dreamy at full aperture and sharp stopped down, and it's a preset lens - this mean you can use the stepless aperture ring, which comes handy in many cases for video.

That said, I have a Volna-3 80/2.8, it is available in p6 or kiev88 mount, I paid around 50 euros for it and it's a very good all round lens.

But again, depending on budget and needs, you have many other options.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just ordered a Samyang 85/1.4 and am waiting for it to arrive. I can tell you if it's any good in a few days, hopefully. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sammyang is excellent, just take care as you will soon want the 14mm F2.8 as well
I could recomend the Russian Vega 12B an excellent choice lots of character, the Jupiter 9 would also be recomended.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get the Samyang 85mm T1.5 Cine if you will use follow focus system and de-clicked aperture(you may also de-clicke the normal version easily from the tutorial on the web).


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Huh, hadn't really considered the Samyang. I had spent too much time searching for a cheap Takumar or Olympus or Zeiss and trying to figure out which Jupiter is supposed to be the best (and then I got hung up on the Helios bokeh... So much fun, but not appropriate yet...). I'll have to check out some threads with image samples. I'll also look into the Vega mentioned

But it's still a bit more than I can currently spend. I was trying to keep it under $200 since it's a lens that will be useful but not used as much as my others (at least, not as long as I'm shooting on a cropped sensor)... so I guess the question would be, "Wait a bit to buy something like the Samyang or instant gratification with something like the Jupiter..."

As for the Volna, do either of those mounts work on Canon? I'm still relatively new to this and don't recognize them (I've only bought OM and M42 so far)


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you plan to use it mostly for video, maybe for paid work, and you are ready to pay a close sum, save a little and get the samyang.
For around 200 bucks you can get a takumar 85 1.9, which is great, but I think the samyang would be a wiser choice for video use (note that I am a great fan of takumars in general and of the 85 in particular).


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you need a large aperture or will f/3.5 suffice?
If all you want to do is get used to the focal length there are plenty of zooms that will go there adequately.
And give you a range of longer fl to try also.
A really cheap option is something like the Tamron 103a. Pay no more than $20 on US eBay.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Do you need a large aperture or will f/3.5 suffice?
If all you want to do is get used to the focal length there are plenty of zooms that will go there adequately.
And give you a range of longer fl to try also.
A really cheap option is something like the Tamron 103a. Pay no more than $20 on US eBay.


IMHO you definitely want large aperture for video use if you're shooting video with a DSLR, because you can't do any respectable PP denoising for video. If you're shooting people you'll also get much better subject isolation which can be important for video.

I'd second the Samyang suggestion, it's a great lens. You'll definitely want the cine version if you're using follow focus.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yeah, I definitely need a relatively large aperture, especially as I tend to shoot video indoors

in truth, I'm using the lenses a lot for photography lately (after family, friends and coworkers realized that their camera phones really don't beat a decent camera, I've become an informal photog for events like birthday parties, hiking trips and school events - I'm a teacher in my day job), but I initially purchased the camera because I'm taking some film classes at night, and that remains my priority


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Samyang is the better option but the Jupiter-9 is still an excellent lens, especially for the price.
I thought I might be willing to part with my Jupiter once I'd bought the Samyang, but the Jupiter is too good to let go. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's a good thread in this forum right now about the Makinon 85mm 1:2. That lens looks good, but I don't have it to attest personally to its quality. An 80-85 type lens is likely to be a bit spendy, so maybe an M42 lens would be less expensive.

I normally stick dogmatically to primes, but I like Luis' suggestion of a zoom. If you had a zoom from, say, 50mm to 135mm (or a similar range) then you could have the 80 to 85mm range as well as get some nice zoom effects during your videos.

Here are a couple other ideas:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-17-85mm-4-5-6-Stabilized-Digital/dp/B0002Y5WXO
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-85mm-Medium-Telephoto-Cameras/dp/B00007GQLU

Canon also makes the kit 28-80. There are five versions, of which I am told the first version is the best. I have the first and one of the other versions and haven't yet tried the first, so I can't testify through experience. I can say that the latter version copy I have is not superb.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
David wrote:
There's a good thread in this forum right now about the Makinon 85mm 1:2. That lens looks good, but I don't have it to attest personally to its quality. An 80-85 type lens is likely to be a bit spendy, so maybe an M42 lens would be less expensive.

I normally stick dogmatically to primes, but I like Luis' suggestion of a zoom. If you had a zoom from, say, 50mm to 135mm (or a similar range) then you could have the 80 to 85mm range as well as get some nice zoom effects during your videos.

....


I saw that Makinon thread, but I wasn't very impressed by the images I saw, especially when wide open (and I think shooting between around 2.8 is very likely based on shorts I've already made), so I'm thinking something that can be stopped down from 1.4 or 1.8 might be a better option (f2 at the very minimum)... and all the zooms seem even more limited on large apertures...

I think I'm now on the fence between getting the Jupiter or Takumar now (provided I can find a good sample of the former or a cheap copy of the latter) or just saving up for the Samyang...

any advice on how to find a good Jupiter 9?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
how about carl zeiss T* 85?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mzzyhmd wrote:
how about carl zeiss T* 85?


Is it a lens I can get for under $300 (and preferably even under $200)? I've generally assumed my budget precludes me from anything with "Zeiss" written on it


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd go for the Jupiter-9 because it will be sharp enough for video and it has exceptional character. The M42 versions tend to be a bit soft until f4, but that's not going to be an issue for video and the rendering and bokeh at f2-f4 are beautiful.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
David wrote:
There's a good thread in this forum right now about the Makinon 85mm 1:2.


I think you meant to say Mitakon, not Makinon. The Mitakon is sharper than the Jupiter-9 M42 wide open.

The price of the Mitakon is too high now - you'd be blowing over half the budget of the Samyang 85/1.4 for a slower lens (although lighter and more compact too). Similar thing with the Jupiter 9, which tends to go for $120+. If you can get either for less, then go for it.

It's worth saving for the Samyang - that is a great lens with better coatings than either the Jupiter or the Mitakon. You can use it against the sun.

Regarding use for DSLR photography, the Jupiter 9 might be the easiest to use, as it has an aperture ring that can be flipped quickly between the maximum aperture and the selected one. With the Mitakon and Samyang, you'll have to count the clicks of the aperture ring or take the camera away from the eye or get used to focusing with a darker viewfinder.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
David wrote:
There's a good thread in this forum right now about the Makinon 85mm 1:2.


I think you meant to say Mitakon, not Makinon. The Mitakon is sharper than the Jupiter-9 M42 wide open.

...cut some stuff out...

Regarding use for DSLR photography, the Jupiter 9 might be the easiest to use, as it has an aperture ring that can be flipped quickly between the maximum aperture and the selected one. With the Mitakon and Samyang, you'll have to count the clicks of the aperture ring or take the camera away from the eye or get used to focusing with a darker viewfinder.


Yeah, sorry, Mitakon - I get mixed up on all the names

As for the preset aperture, that does attract me about the Jupiter. I have an Industar 61 L/Z with that same function, and I found it very useful the one time I used it on video - also, just the ability to adjust the aperture slightly instead of in full stops and to change aperture during shooting is incredibly useful. But the Samyang also comes in a cine version, which means it has a declicked aperture (if I go for the Samyang, I'll go that route)


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love the old Nikkor-H 85/1.8, fabulous lens


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
strangelove wrote:
mzzyhmd wrote:
how about carl zeiss T* 85?


Is it a lens I can get for under $300 (and preferably even under $200)?


mzzyhmd probably meant the Contax Zeiss Sonnar 85/2.8, not the Planar 85/1.4. You can probably get the Sonnar for under $300, maybe cheaper if you do some good hunting. It's reputed to be an awesome lens in sharpness and colour rendition which is awesome for landscapes and whatnot, but sharpness at 18MP will make absolutely zero difference when you're shooting 1080p video.

Large aperture capability would be a much more useful feature to you as it will help you isolate subjects from backgrounds and shoot decent video in extremely low indoor light. So if you're doing video I'd say your stated budget is better spent on Samyang 85/1.4 than a Sonnar 85/2.8. The Samyang is also really sharp when stopped down anyway, if you do decide to do the occasional landscape or whatnot.

strangelove wrote:
I've generally assumed my budget precludes me from anything with "Zeiss" written on it


This is not true, there are many cheap, fantastic, and underrated Zeiss lenses especially in Contax mount. Sonnar 135/2.8 and Planar 50/1.7, for example are excellent lenses that totally fall within your budget. Not to mention a whole slew of great Zeiss Jena lenses. Many of these make awesome video lenses if you're willing to de-click them.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I love the old Nikkor-H 85/1.8, fabulous lens


It's funny you mention it. I just found out a classmate has one, and he's willing to let me test it out, so I just purchased an AI adapter and will be testing it next week.

damn, there are so many good 85s to consider...

wuxiekeji wrote:
This is not true, there are many cheap, fantastic, and underrated Zeiss lenses especially in Contax mount. Sonnar 135/2.8 and Planar 50/1.7, for example are excellent lenses that totally fall within your budget. Not to mention a whole slew of great Zeiss Jena lenses. Many of these make awesome video lenses if you're willing to de-click them.


I remember considering a Zeiss 50mm when I was looking for a good 50 because it was actually within a decent range, so I guess I shouldn't completely ignore them. Thanks for the info


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I love the old Nikkor-H 85/1.8, fabulous lens


It's funny you mention it. I just found out a classmate has one, and he's willing to let me test it out, so I just purchased an AI adapter and will be testing it next week.

damn, there are so many good 85s to consider...

wuxiekeji wrote:
This is not true, there are many cheap, fantastic, and underrated Zeiss lenses especially in Contax mount. Sonnar 135/2.8 and Planar 50/1.7, for example are excellent lenses that totally fall within your budget. Not to mention a whole slew of great Zeiss Jena lenses. Many of these make awesome video lenses if you're willing to de-click them.


I remember considering a Zeiss 50mm when I was looking for a good 50 because it was actually within a decent range, so I guess I shouldn't completely ignore them. Thanks for the info


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like to use more Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85mm T* than anything else in this focal length... and I have many Smile superb performer on low cost
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