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freezing spider for macro stacking.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: freezing spider for macro stacking. Reply with quote
Hey guys,

Got a bit of an obscure question here... If I freeze a spider so that he wont move around whilst I macro stack, will his legs still curl up?

Cheers,

Ben.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A spider is a living animal - would you like to be frozen?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I felt bad the entire time I was catching him / storing him in my freezer... he suffers for my hobby...

on the upside he may be very happy considering it was 39°C here today.

-Ben


PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never use flash on any human or animals, I don't like flash in my own eyes
and of course, I don't like to be frozen


PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For me doing such (freezing, flashing etc.) is ethically unacceptable. I use dead insects that I find at times instead. Those can be prepared with some Glycerol (or glycerin, glycerine)/water mix (moistened cloth, insect on top in a closed tube for some hours) to unbend and then take photos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol


PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: freezing spider for macro stacking. Reply with quote
enliten wrote:
Hey guys,

Got a bit of an obscure question here... If I freeze a spider so that he wont move around whilst I macro stack, will his legs still curl up?

Cheers,

Ben.


Freezing living animals is unacceptable for me. Even if you think that want hurt the insect, because the same thing happens naturally every night, that is not true as the freezing and de-freezing happens to much quicker, and if you let them loose after the shot, yet not completly warm, they will be an easy target for predators.

What you can do thou, is wake up earlier and took advantage of early morning cold, where the insects are still not moving well due to cold and take your shots in a natural way.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's possible without harming them.
I've narcotized a spider by putting it into a plastic box (~750ml) with 2 ehtyl acetate (precisly it was only acetone free nail remover, which contained also a little alcohol) soaked cotton swabs (Q-Tips).
Then I put the whole box in the fridge @~5° for ~10min to accelerate the process.

But be careful, I guess overdosing is very easy.

After that the spider was unconscious for at least 2-3 hours. And now it's hanging in the same edge of my living room again Smile

This method is also used by butterfly collectors, but they don't use a fridge and they are exposing the butterflys very long to high doeses of ethyl acetat vapours with the intent to kill the smoothly without causing any convulsions etc.


Professionals in labs are using carbon dioxide (maybe you can get some from soda stream system etc.) for insects. Some were also using tricaine mesylate (also called MS 222, I guess very hard to get for you) for small insects, fishes and many other water living organsisms (it's very fast).

Last edited by ForenSeil on Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:38 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
For me doing such (freezing, flashing etc.) is ethically unacceptable. I use dead insects that I find at times instead. Those can be prepared with some Glycerol (or glycerin, glycerine)/water mix (moistened cloth, insect on top in a closed tube for some hours) to unbend and then take photos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol


+1 kill for fun unacceptable..


PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
kds315* wrote:
For me doing such (freezing, flashing etc.) is ethically unacceptable. I use dead insects that I find at times instead. Those can be prepared with some Glycerol (or glycerin, glycerine)/water mix (moistened cloth, insect on top in a closed tube for some hours) to unbend and then take photos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol


+1 kill for fun unacceptable..


That's why I've been trying to teach "my" spider to stay still for past few years but since they are not very smart, the progress seems to be extremely slow if any at all Smile


PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This guy never freezes the spiders he photographs and a majority of these are stacked images:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/opoterser/


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
For me doing such (freezing, flashing etc.) is ethically unacceptable. I use dead insects that I find at times instead. Those can be prepared with some Glycerol (or glycerin, glycerine)/water mix (moistened cloth, insect on top in a closed tube for some hours) to unbend and then take photos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol

+10


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, are you guys vegan?
I am.
Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kram wrote:
Wow, are you guys vegan?
I am.
Very Happy

I eat vegans! Laughing


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@martin, but do you freeze spiders?


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's wrong now in using fast shutter time to avoid movement problem?


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hold down shutter while moving focus ring to make images for stacking? Seems like a skill that could be developed.

Mostly vegan I do eat sometimes dairy like greek style yogurt & parmigiano reggiano but no eggs, and sometimes smoked salmon. I prefer to eat low on the food chain, before any eyes appear.

Any creature with eyes has self-consciousness I think -- creatures with eyes appear to be curious -- they will look into my eyes with what seems like the recognition that I too have eyes that see, that I am also looking at them(!) -- at least they recognize my eyes as eyes, or my eyes as a significant part of my own creature anatomy. They seem to have 'personality' and "character" as diverse in their terms as those qualities are diverse in humans.

I do murder mosquitos, moths, and flies that bother me and I throw live ticks into the fire. Embarassed The rest I watch and leave alone -- they keep the place clean & healthy. Spiders get the flies. Ants clear the stuff that would spoil & breed bad bacterias -- they are in & out in practically no time. Laughing

Last edited by visualopsins on Wed May 30, 2012 11:22 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Kram wrote:
Wow, are you guys vegan? I am. Very Happy

I eat vegans! Laughing

+1 Laughing

visualopsins wrote:
Hold down shutter while moving focus ring to make images for stacking? Seems like a skill that could be developed

the best is bellows with motor who move and fire by micro steps
in the lantern firmware for Canon they have a focus stacking addon who work with AF lenses
it move the focus by software, that work but it is too slow for moving insects
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