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Roka
Joined: 18 Mar 2016 Posts: 133 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Expire: 2017-04-07
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:21 pm Post subject: For those using both FF & crop cameras |
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Roka wrote:
In another thread I asked about a backup body for my Sony a6000. A couple of the suggestions were for the Sony a7. I'm definitely NOT trying to get a "FF vs. crop" brawl started but I'm interested in people's opinions who shoot with both. Specifically, is it worth it to spend $1100 to get the a7 vs. $500 for another a6000? Just opinions please as most of us are probably aware of the technical differences. FWIW I'm shooting 100% MF legacy lenses. _________________
Camera
Fujifilm X-T20
Lenses
Vivitar 55mm f/2.8 Macro (1:1)
Canon FD 200mm f/4
Canon FD 300mm f/5.6
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cyrano
Joined: 15 Feb 2013 Posts: 857 Location: UK
Expire: 2016-12-30
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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cyrano wrote:
I bought an A7 because I want a 35MM lens to be 35Mm lens, not a false 50MM and I had some SLR lenses left over from my film days. _________________ A whole bunch of stuff. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3666 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
As much as I love my NEX-7, it hardly gets touched since I bought my A7r, I much prefer using FF with legacy glass. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10956 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:29 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
As always, get the best you can afford.
I would buy the A7 & sell the A6000.
You don't need a backup camera, do you?
After purchasing FF my crop didn't get any use. I sold it just before it went totally worthless...otherwise it would be sitting here unused.
Also there is the ecological reasoning. Why waste all that image circle light? Serious, as it is, the 2:3 format wastes a lot of the image circle light already. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4569 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:03 am Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
have been using APS-C mirrorless cams and had been satisfied with them but had been lurking for a FF only to see how my lenses made for 35mm film perform on a medium of the size they had been designed for. To my taste the A7 is bigger than I wished for and I prefer an articulating EVF, therefore it had taken me long before I finally decided to get one some 8 months ago. For the first 6 months I had been using the A7 exclusively. For their smaller size, and articulating EVF, also because I prefer the images of the Ricoh, lately again I usually use my Ricoh GXR M for daytime and the NEX5n for low light. For wide angle the Heliar 4.5/15 on my APS-C cams beats my 4/21 Heliar on the A7. Still the APS-C cams can't do what a fast 50mm or 35mm does on the FF, and I am happy to have a FF specially for my 50mm legacy lenses. _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:00 am Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
If money is no object, get whatever you want. If cost is a concern look for the right balance. Personally, I would be happy with one A6000 and would consider my NEX-5N a back-up. At today's <$500 price for A6000, seems a bargain. I question whether a 6300 would be worth the difference in cost when you only use MF lenses. FF seems a different discussion.
What is the reason for needing a back-up? Doing pro-work? If not, I'd save the $ until I needed to buy another camera. If doing for pay, always have back-up for everything. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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eno789
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 Posts: 159 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:08 am Post subject: |
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eno789 wrote:
I've been regularly using both my A7 and A6000. Especially for hiking, I often take two lenses on two bodies.
It's a very flexible setup, let's say I have 3 prime lenses, use on two bodies: 28mm, 58mm, 100mm macro. You can come up with 6 combinations. And each effective focal length has its own use:
28mm on FF: wide;
28mm on crop: general all purpose;
58mm on FF: fast normal;
58mm on crop: portrait;
100mm on FF: close portrait, or shallow DoF macro;
100mm on crop: a little more tele, or deeper DoF macro.
And most of the time, I anticipate what I'm going to shoot. Having two bodies allows me to avoid changing lens in the field. _________________ Sharpness from lenses; Softness from me.
Nikon DSLR, Sony Mirrorless, Panasonic mu-4/3 - Having fun with MF lenses
https://www.flickr.com/groups/painterly_bokeh |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:55 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
An used A7 in good condition is about $700. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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TrueLoveOne
Joined: 30 Sep 2012 Posts: 1839 Location: Netherlands
Expire: 2013-12-24
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:59 am Post subject: |
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TrueLoveOne wrote:
I've been shooting FF Canon with AF lenses and crop NEX for my old glass for some time. Just because of the fact that i also use Minolta film cameras i knew how these lenses feel when used on a fullsize frame.
This always felt like a short coming when i had the lenses on a crop body. So i saved up and bought the A7.
Couldn't be happier! Highly recommended investment!
Cheers, René! _________________ My Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantalrene/
Sony A7, Canon 5D mkII, Minolta 7D + RD3000 and some more.....
Minolta and Konica collector.... slowly selling all the other stuff! |
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Roka
Joined: 18 Mar 2016 Posts: 133 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Expire: 2017-04-07
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Roka wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
If money is no object, get whatever you want. If cost is a concern look for the right balance. Personally, I would be happy with one A6000 and would consider my NEX-5N a back-up. At today's <$500 price for A6000, seems a bargain. I question whether a 6300 would be worth the difference in cost when you only use MF lenses. FF seems a different discussion.
What is the reason for needing a back-up? Doing pro-work? If not, I'd save the $ until I needed to buy another camera. If doing for pay, always have back-up for everything. |
I'm not doing any paying work but we take a lot of trips and taking photos is a big part of the fun for me. I just don't want to be on day 1 of a 7 day trip and have my a6000 decide to take a vacation of its own.
It sounds like most everyone who replied is very happy with their FF cameras. I've looked at used a7 bodies and they seem to be in the $800 range or so on that auction site. _________________
Camera
Fujifilm X-T20
Lenses
Vivitar 55mm f/2.8 Macro (1:1)
Canon FD 200mm f/4
Canon FD 300mm f/5.6
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:31 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
You need to wait if you want to get one in $700. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3666 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Roka wrote: |
woodrim wrote: |
If money is no object, get whatever you want. If cost is a concern look for the right balance. Personally, I would be happy with one A6000 and would consider my NEX-5N a back-up. At today's <$500 price for A6000, seems a bargain. I question whether a 6300 would be worth the difference in cost when you only use MF lenses. FF seems a different discussion.
What is the reason for needing a back-up? Doing pro-work? If not, I'd save the $ until I needed to buy another camera. If doing for pay, always have back-up for everything. |
I'm not doing any paying work but we take a lot of trips and taking photos is a big part of the fun for me. I just don't want to be on day 1 of a 7 day trip and have my a6000 decide to take a vacation of its own.
It sounds like most everyone who replied is very happy with their FF cameras. I've looked at used a7 bodies and they seem to be in the $800 range or so on that auction site. |
For a travel, just in case backup, a NEX 6/7/5N should do just fine, even your cellphone will do in a pinch....
The best scenario, is to save up for an A7 series and the A6000 will end up as backup. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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quidam
Joined: 28 Sep 2012 Posts: 223 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: |
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quidam wrote:
After purchasing my ff, my Nex 6 is retired and my Nex 5 buried in a closet. _________________ Sony Nex 5 & 6, Sony A7II. |
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bror_svensson
Joined: 26 Mar 2015 Posts: 42
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: |
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bror_svensson wrote:
I bought my used sony a7 last autumn for 600$ |
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imagedit
Joined: 17 May 2014 Posts: 92 Location: London, england
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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imagedit wrote:
I have 3 camera's, A6000(everyday camera), olympus EPL-5(Fun and cine lens camera) and Panasonic GF1(self adapted Infrared camera)
Most of the time i take 2 out with me and a couple of adapters to use, I also have focal reducers for them too.
Maybe get a focal reducer and see how it performs on APS-C sensor and get a near FF image. Its close enough for me and i dont have the money yet. _________________ My Flickr |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
Crop sensor cameras are excellent, but only when working with modern lenses specifically designed for crop sensors. When you use a legacy MF lens designed for 35mm format on a crop sensor camera, you throw away about 50% of the visual information collected by the lens. You lose image quality and angle of view. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016 Posts: 298 Location: London
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Well, if you buy a focal reducer, you nearly get the FF focal length, so you can buy a cheap 2nd hand APS-C (or a discounted A 6000 for your spare camera). Issue is quality of the focal reducer. But further gain in light is great for low light conditions (combined with 3200 ASA, you don't need a flash...)
I bought a zonghi 2 a couple months ago and while it was initially very tight, there is now a bit of looseness. Not sure but it may come from the Sony plastic/metal attachment ring.
I think Sony have addressed problem with 2nd generation A7 and A6300 with going all metal....but it won't help with 1st generation A7 2nd hand cameras or A6000 and nex. _________________ Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Gerald wrote: |
Crop sensor cameras are excellent, but only when working with modern lenses specifically designed for crop sensors. When you use a legacy MF lens designed for 35mm format on a crop sensor camera, you throw away about 50% of the visual information collected by the lens. You lose image quality and angle of view. |
Oh my, I disagree in so many ways. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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480sparky
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 355 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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480sparky wrote:
cyrano wrote: |
I bought an A7 because I want a 35MM lens to be 35Mm lens, not a false 50MM and I had some SLR lenses left over from my film days. |
It will still be a 35mm lens, no matter what format you shoot it with.
People need to learn that focal length alone does not determine field of view. |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
480sparky wrote: |
cyrano wrote: |
I bought an A7 because I want a 35MM lens to be 35Mm lens, not a false 50MM and I had some SLR lenses left over from my film days. |
It will still be a 35mm lens, no matter what format you shoot it with.
People need to learn that focal length alone does not determine field of view. |
Right you are. A focal length only becomes different in someone's mind, and that is because they have been conditioned by a specific format. The 1.5 crop factor cameras have been so numerous that many people now have never experienced that 35mm format standard, so to them a 50mm lens looks like a 35mm (33mm) when going to FF. Beyond the actual focal length, it's all perception. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
480sparky wrote: |
cyrano wrote: |
I bought an A7 because I want a 35MM lens to be 35Mm lens, not a false 50MM and I had some SLR lenses left over from my film days. |
It will still be a 35mm lens, no matter what format you shoot it with.
People need to learn that focal length alone does not determine field of view. |
I think cyrano was just trying to say that in terms of angle of view, a 35mm lens on a crop sensor is equivalent to 50mm on a FF sensor.
When you use a legacy 35mm lens on a crop camera sensor, you throw away more than 50% of the image captured by the lens. As a general rule, a legacy 35mm lens produces a lower quality image on a crop sensor camera than a legacy 50mm lens on a FF camera. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2964 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
I moved from canon eos 60d to a7ii. I do miss the articulating EVF. Also the live view on sony is not nearly as good on my tablet. Other than that ithe a7ii is superior in every way. I still have the point and shoots I used prior to the Canon (Pentax X-90 nd optio 5S) and they are small enough and light enough as backup for travel. Get the FF. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3702 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I still use APS-C for macro purpose. But real pleasure is in thin DOF wide angle that A7 delivers. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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leemik
Joined: 21 Feb 2011 Posts: 107 Location: Quincy, MA
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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leemik wrote:
If you got the money, keep the a6000 and get the A7
There are some excellent old lenses that only work in aps-c like most Pen-f, many cine lenses and even some nice native sony glass.. plus the a6000 is so less bulky that sometimes you just want that than carry the bigger a7 around.. you'll get a lot less attention with the a6000 because it looks like a cheap compact to your avg joe.
I know you can just enable crop mode on the a7 but you lose resolution if you do.. |
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Jeff Zen
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 262 Location: Northwest USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff Zen wrote:
There definitely seems to be some full frame elitism here. Some seem to be inferring that you're just not "with it" if you aren't shooting full frame.
It's fine by me. It makes used crop cameras cheaper, and I can sell old FF lenses at higher prices. Win/win! |
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