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anktonio
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 219
Location: Spain
Expire: 2017-02-22
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 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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anktonio wrote:
Concerning the different formats of sensors, I gave my opinion here:
http://forum.mflenses.com/panasonic-lumix-gx7-t60536.html
..."System m4/3 is not a minor system, is a different system, which has its own advantages (many) and cons (few)"...
..."Unfortunately, 24x36 wide manual focus lenses lose all charm when mounted on a m4/3 and an important part in APS"...
Wide-angle lens not only lose their charm, they also produce lower quality images compared with lenses built specifically for a given focal length. But I've never had any problems using 50mm or more legacy lens on M4/3. I especially like to use 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 on my old Panasonic G1 with good results.
Happy shots! |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3930
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
I've been shooting Full Frame since 2008 (Sony A900), and going back to APS-C NEX-5N (because of all the magnificent vintage glass) was never really satisfying. While most good MF lenses (e. g. Canon / Nikon / Minolta / Pentax primes) manage to fulfil the needs of a 16MP APS-C sensor (at least when stopped down), they usually have problems on 24MP APS-C sensors.
Most MF lenses have little or no problems on 24MP Full Frame sensors, and therefore my NEX-5N is hardly used any more. I simply prefer the handling and the image results of my FF A7 / A7 II.
Stephan
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Snodge
Joined: 01 Jan 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Bristol, UK
Expire: 2016-12-27
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Snodge wrote:
I find that due to the lack generally at the wider angle range of the old M42 lenses, means that I can't always shoot using a crop sensor and get the field of view that I want. Using a Lens Turbo II on my Fuji definitely helps, but can restrict what lenses I can use, just as it does on my full frame Canon 5D3 DSLR. If I had some spare cash sitting around, I'd probably be going down the Sony A7II route.
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Hugh
Camera bodies: Fujifilm X-E3 (digital), Praktika Super TL1000 (35mm film), Kershaw 450 (medium format 6x6 folder)
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 4713
Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
This is simple. I have both m43 and FF. I use m43 with C-mounts, Pentax 110 and some Pen F. lenses. Everything else is food for FF, even some Pen F. lenses 
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Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
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Roka
Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 133
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Expire: 2017-04-07
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Roka wrote:
Thanks for all the replies! After considering all the alternatives I decided to try for a used a7 on that auction site. I got one today for a little over $700.
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Camera
Fujifilm X-T20
Lenses
Vivitar 55mm f/2.8 Macro (1:1)
Canon FD 200mm f/4
Canon FD 300mm f/5.6
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Rick1779
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 1207
Location: Italy
Expire: 2014-06-06
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Rick1779 wrote:
| cyrano wrote: |
| I bought an A7 because I want a 35MM lens to be 35Mm lens, not a false 50MM and I had some SLR lenses left over from my film days. |
that's the point 
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TELLTALE
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 298
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Stephan,
Did you test FF legacy lenses with focal reducers on APS-c cameras? Any take on this?
Probably less good than on FF camera but at least you keep almost same focal length and have good light
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Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3930
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| Antoine wrote: |
Stephan,
Did you test FF legacy lenses with focal reducers on APS-c cameras? Any take on this? |
No, i didn't. I did apply for a speedbooster for testing it, but never got any response from the manufacturer. The appearance of the Sony A7, shortly after, gave me the feeling that a USD 400-500 SpeedBooster probably wasn't worth the money for me. And the cheap Chinese copies did look even less appealing.
There are a few reasons apart from optical design worth considering:
* You need an expesive SpeedBooster for any lens mount you may want to adapt. Two SpeedBoosters are more expensive than a used FF camera (Sony A7) plus several lens adapters
* Using the Sony A7II Series all your vintage lenses are stabilized. VERY useful indeed.
* A 24MP APS-C sensor is far more prone to color cast / purple fringing than a 24MP FF sensor
* FF sensors have better Dynamic Range / high ISO / noise
| Antoine wrote: |
Probably less good than on FF camera but at least you keep almost same focal length and have good light |
Probably, yes - but i have no own experience to confirm it!
One advantage of APS-C & Speedbooster might be the small camera size. if you consider that as an advantage ... Personally i prefer the (heavier / larger) A7II over the smaller A7. And i MUCH prefer the A7/A7II over the even smaller Nex-5N ... but that's only my personal opinion. Others may prefer the tiny NEX-5 ...
Stephan
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Zeeke
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 174
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Zeeke wrote:
Hello
I have an A99 that I use both with manually lenses and wonderful Minolta af lenses.I also have a a3000 that I mainly use af lenses on,it is a lightweight and low-cost option that it feels good to have access to.
I think Mf lenses is at its best on ff when 28mm is wide and all the wonderful 50mm lenses will be really alround.
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Pentax Ks1
Fuji XT10 |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3666
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Back before the A7's were announced, I sent an email off to Metabones asking when or if they would be making a speedbooster with interchangeable mounts?
They would look into it.....
Then the A7/A7r announcement came, I bought an A7r and haven't looked back.
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A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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TrueLoveOne
Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 1839
Location: Netherlands
Expire: 2013-12-24
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:07 am Post subject: |
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TrueLoveOne wrote:
| Lightshow wrote: |
| a speedbooster with interchangeable mounts |
An Adaptall-like speedbooster, sounds like a great idea.
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My Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantalrene/
Sony A7, Canon 5D mkII, Minolta 7D + RD3000 and some more.....
Minolta and Konica collector.... slowly selling all the other stuff! |
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tromboads
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 1655
Location: Melbourne AU
Expire: 2015-10-01
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: |
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tromboads wrote:
Why? Are your shots that mission critical that this perceived psychological difference will make a real difference?
Just use what ever tools gets the job done and forgot all this FOV crap. It's only useful if you are stuck in 135mm format. There is nearly a whole generation that grew up on APS-C now, so thankfully all this nonsense will just die away. 
My experience coming from form 135mm format into APS-C has been more a;
"Ah! this lens now looks like this. Ah ok."
"Ah, this lens does this now. Ah ok"
THE END! 
GAH! Now I've ranted about FF vs APS ...Fail 
OP! I'm glad you bought an A7!. You will have the fun!  |
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Antoine
Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 298
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Antoine wrote:
Stephen.
Thanks for input. Makes sense. Will probably wait for A7 ii second hand to come available or new price to come down. Also, it makes the A 6300 a non starter as it is expensive and does not have stabilisation.
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Antoine
Sony A6000 APS-C and Sony A7 Rii
Minolta Fisheye MD Rokkor 7.5 mm f4, Fisheye MD 16 f2.8 MD R 17mm f4, MD R 20mm f2.8, MC VFC & MDIII 24mm f2.8, MD 28mm f2.0 &3.5, MD II 35mm 1.8, MD 45mm f2.0, MD 50mm f 1.2 & MD I f1.4, MC PG 58mm 1.2, MD 85mm f2.0, MD R 85mm f2.8 Varisoft, MC 85mm f1.7 MD R 100mm f2.5, MD R 100mm f4.0 macro, MD III 135mm f2.8, MD R 200mm f2.8 & 4.0, RF 250mm f5.6, MD 300mm f4.5, MD APO 400 mm f5.6, RF 500mm f8.0, RF 800mm f8.0 *2 300-s and 300-l
100 mm f4 macro bellows (5/4)
Vivitar 17mm f3.5, Elicar 300mm mirror f5.6, Zhongi turbo ii
Sigma 16mm f 2.8 fish eye
Zooms:24-50 mm f4, 35-70 mm f3.5 macro, 28-85mm f3.5-4.5, 50-135 f 3.5, 70-210 f4 and MD APO 100-500 mm f8 |
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Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 356
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Basilisk wrote:
| TrueLoveOne wrote: |
| Lightshow wrote: |
| a speedbooster with interchangeable mounts |
An Adaptall-like speedbooster, sounds like a great idea. |
Until then, an EF mount version covers Nikon, M42 and several others, with cheap adaptor rings. |
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Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 356
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Basilisk wrote:
APS-C never took off in film days (ok partly for quality reasons). It was a compromise when digital took over, mainly because the cost of making FF sensors was prohibitive for many years. If they could have built good value FF digital sensors from the start, that is what would have happened. Obviously APS-C allows more compact bodies and lenses, but because the main makers kept the same flange distance for DSLRs, the size savings were not that significant.
Sony A7 series is the first to fulfil the promise of a full frame format, with body sizes comparable to classic film SLRs (like OM series or Spotmatic series), unlike modern monster size DSLRs |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 950
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Gardener wrote:
| Basilisk wrote: |
APS-C never took off in film days (ok partly for quality reasons). It was a compromise when digital took over, mainly because the cost of making FF sensors was prohibitive for many years. If they could have built good value FF digital sensors from the start, that is what would have happened. Obviously APS-C allows more compact bodies and lenses, but because the main makers kept the same flange distance for DSLRs, the size savings were not that significant.
Sony A7 series is the first to fulfil the promise of a full frame format, with body sizes comparable to classic film SLRs (like OM series or Spotmatic series), unlike modern monster size DSLRs |
Two points. 1. APS-C never took off because public got tired of new film format scams Kodak tried to pull at least once a decade, and digital was right around the corner. 2. What you "call monster size DSLRs" are very close in size to high-end AF film SLR and represent huge size and weight reduction compared to some professional MF outfits. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3930
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| Gardener wrote: |
...
What you "call monster size DSLRs" are very close in size to high-end AF film SLR and represent huge size and weight reduction compared to some professional MF outfits. |
Absolutely true.
Nevertheless i would have immediately switched to, say, a Nikon Df if it would have had better technology than my Sony A900. However changing from a 24MP with stabilization to a 16MP without stabilization (and worse colors) didn't really make sense to me.
While the Sony A7II nicely fits into my hands, the EVF and the extremely short battery lifetime is simply annoying and far from "professional". Thus, we are still waiting for a reasonably small / lightweight FF DSLR...
Stephan
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Quite interesting to read the different opinions.
However, I am using different formats for different tasks both analog and digital and every format offers different benefits.
That means that I am using FF (Sony A850), MFT (Lumix GF1) and APS-C (Ricoh GXR, Pentax DSLR and NEX) in parallel.
The Ricoh GXR APS-C is BTW my most favorite and most used camera for the use of MF lenses as it's still the only camera (besides Leica) which was exclusively designed for MF lenses. There is still nothing comparable available till date in terms of compatibility and portability with MF lenses and particularly RF lenses where it delivers excellent picture quality even with extreme wide angle lenses such as the 12 and 15 mm Voigtländer RF lenses which I consider as wide enough on APS-C crop sensor. Also the available focus aids which I consider as most important feature for the use with MF lenses is still unbeaten. Maybe I would change my mind if somebody would offer a comparable camera with FF sensor. I don't know yet.
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Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10956
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:25 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| tb_a wrote: |
| ... APS-C ... the available focus aids which I consider as most important feature for the use with MF lenses is still unbeaten. Maybe I would change my mind if somebody would offer a comparable camera with FF sensor. I don't know yet. |
The gist of it for me -- it happened before Live View -- I couldn't focus fast MF lenses using APS-C optical viewfinder until I got my FF camera. 
Immediate before that I purchased a film camera to see how wide angle lens looked through the viewfinder...a few rolls of film later I "needed" a FF digital...
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☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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