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Developing 120 film
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Developing 120 film Reply with quote
That wasn't part of my course - do you have any advice about it?

What about the protection paper? Must it be removed prior to putting in the tank?

-


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Developing 120 film Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

What about the protection paper? Must it be removed prior to putting in the tank?-


Yes, the paper is removed. It comes off easily because it's only attached with a piece of sticky tape at one end; remove this tape and the film just comes off. After this it is loaded onto the spiral just like smaller films, although you have to be careful not to bend it off-track. However, I personally find it easier to load 120 than 135 onto a spiral…

Edit: Here's a YouTube clip showing the process. =)


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Arkku. I'll watch the movie.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't forget to adjust the volume of chemical products accordingly (usually written under the tank)


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And is it correct that you need to pre-soak 120 before adding developer?

I'd like to hear how you got on loading the 120 onto the spiral!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
And is it correct that you need to pre-soak 120 before adding developer?

No more so than any other film. Just remember to NEVER pre-soak a film going through a two-bath developer. I did that once in the early days when I was 17, and the photographer felt the need to slap me around the back of the head for wrecking his negs. I never did it again Embarassed


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is pre-soak?

thanks!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
What is pre-soak?

thanks!


This is where you soak the film in a bath of water at the temperature you are going to develop at. It can be useful if your darkroom, film etc is at a wildly different temperature to that which you are going to develop at. A handy technique if your darkroom is an igloo in the frozen wastes of the Arctic circle Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I usually pre-soak all my negs. Haven't really noticed a difference either way, but with some films it does remove the anti-halation dye. Probably doesn't matter with films from major manufacturers, though.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
And is it correct that you need to pre-soak 120 before adding developer?

I do it even on 35mm film. It can't hurt to pre-soak even if it wouldn't be necessary.

Quote:
I'd like to hear how you got on loading the 120 onto the spiral!

I find it easier than 35mm : you don't have to cut the leader in the dark.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been practicing loading the Paterson reels with 120. Not quite the
cakewalk the 35mm is, but not bad.

I've been prewashing not soaking, all my films to remove dye.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I watched the movie, and then I sacrificed a roll and tried, but I still made a mess with the paper and film. In the movie the guy is going very fast and I think I miss a passage or something. Sad


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is clearer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SM5p_x4w7A&NR=1

but the guy looks not so fluent in doing it...


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
He makes it look difficult, which I expect it is.

When I go 120, I'm getting an apron. I hate loading films into spirals.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I also find 120 film easier *touch wood* than 35mm. I use plastic reels with large feeding tabs, the kind the frugal photographer recommends. Every now and then I have to pull back and start over with the loading - but it's pretty obvious right away when that happens.

I don't bother separating film from backing before loading- I simply let the paper go one way and the film into the reel. And at the end, I pull off the tape from the paper, or tear it off, whichever is easier.

35mm can be easy, though there's the prep of cutting off the leader. Actually I think I've had more start misfeeds with 35 than 120.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
something always happens to mine mid-way. The film jumps out of spiral and I have to restart. It does it on nearly every roll, but is fine on the 2nd try.

Nesster - Which reels do you use? I use Pattersons.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Frugal Photographer's page is very informative, though I don't have that brand of reel/tank (though I suspect it is the same manufacturer):
http://www.frugalphotographer.com/catChemicals.htm#processing%20film%20at%20home

Mine is a Samigon, the reel is similar to the picture at frugal

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122985-REG/Samigon_ESA321_Universal_Plastic_Developing_Tank.html


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I made tentatives and it's been a disaster.

Out of ten, I get one success, 5 times nothing happens (the film does not get it=, 4 times the film actually unwinds back instead of reeling in.

I am very frustrated. Mad Sad


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Practise with a useless film in daylight, then when you're competent, try it with your eyes shut.
I find it helps if I put a small revferse curl on the leading edge.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StanW wrote:
Practise with a useless film in daylight, then when you're competent, try it with your eyes shut.


That's what I have done in the last hour... Sad

StanW wrote:
I find it helps if I put a small revferse curl on the leading edge.


hm... you mean the edge that you insert first?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

Out of ten, I get one success, 5 times nothing happens (the film does not get it=, 4 times the film actually unwinds back instead of reeling in.

I am very frustrated. :x :(


Hmm, film unwinding should not happen if you always hold on to it with your thumb when moving the spiral halves.

To illustrate; the reel starts with the “insertion slots” aligned (poor graphics, not descriptive), and the film is pushed in a bit:

_______|_|
==film===
_______|_|

Now, one half of the spiral is rotated back while holding on to the film with your other thumb (marked with *), to prevent the film from going backwards:

|_|____ <- (pulling reel back, film held stationary by right thumb)
==film==*
_______|*|

Then you let go with that thumb and hold on with the other thumb as you push the film forwards:

_|*|____ -> (pushing forward along with film held by left thumb)
=*==film=>
_______|_|

(The pattern repeats from start.)

There should be no possibility of the film unwinding because you always hold it with exactly one thumb. If it still unwinds, it's probably not on the right “track” of the spiral to begin with.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Arkku, your drawing is very well understandeable.

I have a doubt about this process, this way you put the fingers on the film all the way, doesn't it cause a damage? I read that one should touch the film as less as possible.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

I have a doubt about this process, this way you put the fingers on the film all the way, doesn't it cause a damage? I read that one should touch the film as less as possible.


The emulsion side is not being touched in this process, so it should be just fine with clean hands. At worst it may leave some fingerprints, but these are washed away after developing.

I recall now that you might have been using a Kaiser reel, which may have an “auto load” mechanism that interfaces with the sprockets of 135 film so that you do not have to touch the film when loading, but I don't think it works with 120 film (no sprockets). So instead of the ball-bearings inside the reel, the film must be held with thumbs against the edge of the insertion slot. (Edit: Actually I'm not sure if the auto-load system relies on sprockets, maybe it should work without them. My current Jobo reels don't have it. Hmm.)

Maybe with steel reels it is possible to load with less touching (I don't know; never used one)? But with plastic reels I think this is the intended way to load…


PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arkku wrote:
Orio wrote:

I have a doubt about this process, this way you put the fingers on the film all the way, doesn't it cause a damage? I read that one should touch the film as less as possible.


The emulsion side is not being touched in this process, so it should be just fine with clean hands. At worst it may leave some fingerprints, but these are washed away after developing.

I recall now that you might have been using a Kaiser reel, which may have an “auto load” mechanism that interfaces with the sprockets of 135 film so that you do not have to touch the film when loading, but I don't think it works with 120 film (no sprockets). So instead of the ball-bearings inside the reel, the film must be held with thumbs against the edge of the insertion slot. (Edit: Actually I'm not sure if the auto-load system relies on sprockets, maybe it should work without them. My current Jobo reels don't have it. Hmm.)

Maybe with steel reels it is possible to load with less touching (I don't know; never used one)? But with plastic reels I think this is the intended way to load…


OK, thanks much!
You are correct about the kaiser.
In fact I was wondering what the helga could those ball bearings do with the 120 film
About the fingerprints, I had an idea, went out and bought a box of latex gloves. They should help and they're sexy too Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

About the fingerprints, I had an idea, went out and bought a box of latex gloves. They should help and they're sexy too :lol:


LOL =)
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