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Choosing the mirrorless camera
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Choosing the mirrorless camera Reply with quote
So i'm in the market for the mirrorless camera, with main goal - to be able to use pretty much wide range of lenses (most notably those from vintage rangefinders and cine lenses)...

I have the following list to choose from:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-G3
Canon EOS-M
Sony Alpha NEX-5N
Sony Alpha NEX-5R
Olympus E-PM1
Pentax Q10


I was considering DMC-G3, well mostly because it has built in viewfinder, but the limiting factor of 2x crop, and lower dynamic range, ISO speed, changed my opinion. Pentax Q10 seemed nice, especially since it can adapt C mount lenses, but its sensor size is unacceptably small. So, at this point Nex-5N or 5R is the strong candidate. Though i'm not sure what's the difference between them. Any help/input is appreciated...


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Jvg,

The Nex 5N is the previous version, the 5R is the brand new one. Main differences:
- hybrid AF - using contrast and phase detect sensors - supposedly to be a bit faster, similar technology as on the EOS M
- wifi and apps - not sure yet of the interest, except using your smartphone as a remote incl. liveview

If you're interested in a viewfinder, I'd advise to look at the Nex 6. Same sensor as the 5R but with the electronic viewfinder of the Nex 7. I bought mine yesterday. Didn't have the chance to really test it yet but I can already tell you the viewfinder is stunningly good, I don't miss the one from my DSLR...

But the Nex 6 is APS-C, so for cine lenses, it's not great (cropped image circle) - but not worse than any micro-4/3 camera. On the other hand, great sensor, dynamic range, ISO.

With viewfinders, you could also look at:
- Olympus OM-D: micro-4/3 but fantastic sensor (shared with smaller & cheaper E-PL5 and E-PM2)
- Fuji XE-1: great camera, this one is expensive - but possibly the best APS-C sensor on the market today


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ylyad wrote:
Hi Jvg,

The Nex 5N is the previous version, the 5R is the brand new one. Main differences:
- hybrid AF - using contrast and phase detect sensors - supposedly to be a bit faster, similar technology as on the EOS M
- wifi and apps - not sure yet of the interest, except using your smartphone as a remote incl. liveview

If you're interested in a viewfinder, I'd advise to look at the Nex 6. Same sensor as the 5R but with the electronic viewfinder of the Nex 7. I bought mine yesterday. Didn't have the chance to really test it yet but I can already tell you the viewfinder is stunningly good, I don't miss the one from my DSLR...

But the Nex 6 is APS-C, so for cine lenses, it's not great (cropped image circle) - but not worse than any micro-4/3 camera. On the other hand, great sensor, dynamic range, ISO.

With viewfinders, you could also look at:
- Olympus OM-D: micro-4/3 but fantastic sensor (shared with smaller & cheaper E-PL5 and E-PM2)
- Fuji XE-1: great camera, this one is expensive - but possibly the best APS-C sensor on the market today


Thanks Ylyad for your input.

Nex-5n body only costs $459, while 5r goes for $598, not sure if wifi, aps and hybrid AF are the features i'm going to be using at all. Since i'll be using manual focus lenses only. And i did look at the nex-6, it runs at $850 (body only), while i can get nex-5n with viewfinder at $730 bundled. OM-D and XE-1 (although nice) are out of my price range.
Are there any major differences in nex-5n and 5r sensors? They're both 1.5x APS-C, correct? My main concern is dynamic range, bit dept, low noise at higher ISO, sensor size and Bulb - would be a very nice bonus... Smile


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nex-3 second hand +LCD viewer , cheap and great.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
the sensor of the 5R is said to be "redesigned" to incorporate the hybrid AF, at Dxomark it overall scored at 78, the 5N scored 77. The 5R has better dynamic range, the 5N better high ISO performance, see:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en.../Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/826|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/737|0/%28brand2%29/Sony
( for some reason this link doesn't show properly, if you click it it won't show both cameras, copy and paste the full text for the comparison of both models )

I use 5N with EVF and though I'd like the live view and remote control on my handphone they are not enough reason to upgrade to 5R. Personally I love the EVF to be articulating and therefore, even though it should offer better access to settings, would not exchange it for a NEX6.

EDIT: The link works with TinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/bqgxg7h


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
the sensor of the 5R is said to be "redesigned" to incorporate the hybrid AF, at Dxomark it overall scored at 78, the 5N scored 77. The 5R has better dynamic range, the 5N better high ISO performance, see:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en.../Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/826|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/737|0/%28brand2%29/Sony
( for some reason this link doesn't show properly, if you click it it won't show both cameras, copy and paste the full text for the comparison of both models )

I use 5N with EVF and though I'd like the live view and remote control on my handphone they are not enough reason to upgrade to 5R. Personally I love the EVF to be articulating and therefore, even though it should offer better access to settings, would not exchange it for a NEX6.


Thanks Kuuan,
i've used snapsort comparison, and according to their results, 5n is 100% winner.
http://snapsort.com/compare/Sony-NEX-5N-vs-Sony-NEX-5R


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The sensor of the 5N was already really good, and at time was a great upgrade compared to the first Nex 5, especially for low-light and dynamic range. There is nearly no difference between the 5N and the 5R.

I wanted an integrated EVF, so Nex 6 was a welcome addition cheaper than the Nex 7 - I wanted to avoid the added bulk of the accessory viewfinder. But if I'd buy a Nex 5 today, I'd take the 5N. From what I've played with the Nex 6 today, I don't think the Wifi+apps are bringing... And the accessory EVF is the same as the one integrated in the Nex 6, and it's a great stuff!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's said that the NEX is the most perfect system camera for use of many different mounts. I am looking for a mirrorless cam too, and it will be the NEX.

Only difference: I'll be watching out for the cheapest solution that fits me, so I second Atilla's remark about getting your first mirrorless second hand. I want to try it out first at low cost, you can always get a top model if you really like it.

I have heard end read from several people that they don't use their dslr anymore after they discovered the NEX..... kinda curious now...


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 for the NEX, best thing I ever bought.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nexes have proved to be a great choice as mirrorless cameras for MF lenses usage, and the average feedback of users here is the best proof for that.
Then, as always, there are some subjective reasons why one could dislike it or find it not so comfortable to use.
I haven't had any other mirrorless cameras, and I like using my dslr better than using a nex for some little reasons (ergonomy being the most important), but I'm really happy with my 5n, i think it is a great tool for its price.
That said, I think a used nex c3 would be an excellent choice, considering both price and features.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrueLoveOne wrote:
It's said that the NEX is the most perfect system camera for use of many different mounts. I am looking for a mirrorless cam too, and it will be the NEX.

Only difference: I'll be watching out for the cheapest solution that fits me, so I second Atilla's remark about getting your first mirrorless second hand. I want to try it out first at low cost, you can always get a top model if you really like it.

I have heard end read from several people that they don't use their dslr anymore after they discovered the NEX..... kinda curious now...

I've chosen to first sell my DSLR, so this allowed me to not go the cheap way Wink And I sold it because of its size that led me to not bring it with me anymore, to avoid carrying the bulky stuff.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good discussion and I'm watching with interest.

I don't like crop cameras which is why I avoided the NEX and similar, but I'm thinking of getting a compact-sized camera when I'm traveling light.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
".....to avoid carrying the bulky stuff."[i]

That was indeed one of my reasons to want a smaller and lighter camera. It occured too many times that when i decided to leave the dslr at home there were always situations when you really really wanted to have your camera!

The other reason is the fact that i refuse to use adapters with a glass element. I do not see the point of that. And with a NEX i can use my pentax and minolta lenses again!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrueLoveOne wrote:
The other reason is the fact that i refuse to use adapters with a glass element. I do not see the point of that. And with a NEX i can use my pentax and minolta lenses again!

+1

I have FD & LTM lenses that would be good to test on digital.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ditching my 400D, loved it though I did, was a good move. I'm far happier with the NEX-3, and I can mount a wider range of MF glass. The ISO performance is astounding coming from the an older body from the EOS system.

I too went the 2nd hand route, and bagged myself a bargain.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My Pentax K10 broke, I bought a NEX5 on a whim and began to like it. The Pentax was away for over 6 months and was eventually said to be unrepairable. By that time I'd grown to really like the NEX, I loved the size and ease of using it, and the level of performance was incredible with old MF lenses.
I got another K10 a week or so ago, it's perfect and I like it a lot, I'm going to keep it. But the NEX rules. Cool


PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you all for some interesting info.

BTW i did look at the prices for second hand NEX-3 (including C & F variations) and their prices are only about $100-$150 less than brand new Nex-5n... So i rather spend that extra $$$ and get new and newer camera.

In any case, i do have couple of questions. Does EVF on Nex-5n also do Focus peaking, or it's available only through LCD?

and second, Long Exposure? This actually is quite decision making feature, does any nex support BULB? And obviously accessories for long exposure?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll have £300 to buy a used Nex. I want remote release (preferably wired) possibly bulb exposure and 'focus peak' (sounds very useful) this flippy up viewfinder would be great.

any suggestions as to model for the money, I could go up a few pounds, I'd like the sony lens with the cam but its not that important as the body will be mainly used.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The other reason is the fact that i refuse to use adapters with a glass element. I do not see the point of that. And with a NEX i can use my pentax and minolta lenses again!


Absolutely right, all my M42, PK, MD, OM, QBM, FD, M39 and T2 lenses go on my NEX with cheap and simple adapters. What more do I need? maybe a mirror and prism? no, I don't hink so. Laughing
I bought my NEX5 on impulse, it was a one off return to a shop, but still in unopened packaging. Absolutely new and over £100 below the regular price. I had to have it. But it was a camera that I had done no research about, and I knew very little about. It was a chance, and I'm glad I took it. It's the best camera I've ever had. Cool


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:

I bought my NEX5 on impulse, it was a one off return to a shop, but still in unopened packaging. Absolutely new and over £100 below the regular price. I had to have it. But it was a camera that I had done no research about, and I knew very little about. It was a chance, and I'm glad I took it. It's the best camera I've ever had. Cool


I live 15 minutes walk from the QVC shop. I'll take a look there on my way home from work...


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you can ignore the crap, and in my case keep my wife out of there, the QVC returns shop is a great place. I've had a lot of power tools and stuff like that really cheap. Everything that gets returned goes through the two shops, nothing goes back through the proper sales channel. If you look on their website you can see what they are selling on TV, then wait a week for the returns.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
5k for 250


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
5k for 250


"go on, go on, go on" Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will I will I will!


PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
I will I will I will!


getting MY OWN money is a ball-ache this time of year. Maybe Weds or Friday now. (Credit Union great interest, very cheap loans, but must go to office for withdrawals)

oooooh!
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