Chinon and Tomioka?

Fujinonuser · Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 128 Location: Germany

@Pancolart
The Weltblick Auto Super 1.7 / 55mm is identical to the Autoreflecta 1.7 / 55mm which is the first standard lens that Chinon equipped its Chinonflex cameras with in 1966. The silver bottom (an indicator for some Tomioka standard lenses) was later dropped for an all black bottom as in your Model B (second phase). The optical design and luminous glass remained the same.
The "multi-coated" Chinon lenses of your third phase were apparently made by Cima Kogaku, as identified by the diamond index marker. Sun Optical Co. is also brought into discussion for some Chinon lenses of that period, but many Chinon lenses of that period were also sold as Paragon lenses, which is Cima's own brand for third-party lenses (also sold as Ensinor, Clubman, etc.).
The multi-coated Chinon lenses in very solid tubes with glossy finish (similar to the Alpa and some Tamron lenses) were apparently made from glass furnished by Tamron. Tube design and manufacture by Chinon.
The co-operation between Chinon and Cosina and Ricoh is difficult to disentangle. Cosina began to manufacture lens tubes in 1963 and had its own glass foundry no sooner than in 1968, when Tomioka became part of the Yashica trust (which does not exclude the possibility that they continued to manufacture lenses for cameras other than the Yashica). The Cosinon Tomioka 1.2 / 55mm lens that can occasionally be seen is therefore a lens designed and manufactured by Tomioka, not by Cosina, but sold with Cosina cameras. Only after 1968 was Cosina in a position to manufacture lenses according to their own designs (of known quality) as well as according to other company's designs and specifications (as Tomioka's).
What do we learn from this? There are striking differences in lens design. Although the geometrical optics of a lens cannot be changed (every lens will suffer from diffraction at small apertures, for example), lens designs are different with respect to how the DOF is distributed over the image field. Lenses with shallow DOF may give unnatural focus to parts of a face in portrait work at maximum aperture, whereas other lenses *seem* to have a wider DOF at maximum aperture, although at the expense of overall sharpness. And there are differences in the purity of the glass used, the time allowed for cooling down the glass and finally for polishing and coating the surfaces. A good lens will accompany you through your life. The Tomioka lenses are such lenses, if you know how to spot them and if you know their limitations.

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I wonder how many pages the Chinon/Cosina/Tomioka speculation will go on for this time? Rolling Eyes

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Excalibur · Expire: 2014-04-21

Oldhand · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:56 am Post subject:

Excalibur · Expire: 2014-04-21

Oldhand · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:29 am Post subject:

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Oldhand · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:37 am Post subject:

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

Excalibur · Expire: 2014-04-21

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Oldhand · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:30 am Post subject:

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

@Pancolart
What I mean is that these Chinon and Cosina (in this photo) and Porst that I have coatings looks identical:

I don't have good photo of Chinon but the front elements of both these lenses are dull magenta:

There are Chinon lenses with the opposite color schema - the front is greenish and the rear is dull magenta but the colors themselves seems identical. I have only front picture:

And this is already very close to MC 55/1.7 Chinon

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Just wondering, do you folks actually shoot these lenses or just collect them so you can compare tiny details?

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I only asked because I wanted to know if there was any possibility of there being some discussion about the lenses capabilities.

You still haven't answered the question. Do you actually use these lenses or are you just a collector?

I ask because I don't want to waste my time taking in the words of non-shooters.

dimitrygo · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561

Fujinonuser · Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 128 Location: Germany

I find the information about Ozunon contributing some of the later Chinon lenses (and probably not all focal lengths, but rather some focal lengths like the wide-angle lenses) most interesting, but I cannot add much information myself. If the Porst wide-angle lenses with Fujinon FX bayonet are Ozunon lenses, then they are very sharp with good color transmission (not to be mistaken for EBC Fujinon lenses though).

Again, the Cosinon Tomioka 1.2 / 55mm lens was totally made by Tomioka.

The Porst Color Reflex MC Auto 1.4 / 55mm M42 with the characteristic "window" in the aperture ring is just as sharp and has the same high definition as the Chinon Tomioka 1.4 / 55mm. If you compare the color histograms for both lenses, though, you will notice a difference in color transmission. This has been noted before and there are illustrations around. One may ask how many optical plants had the tools and the capacities for such high-quality lenses. If you look at the Porst 1.4 / 55mm sideways, it very much reminds me of an early Zeiss or Rollei Planar. There are also Chinon 1:1.4 55mm multi-coated lenses with diamond marker that were manufactured according to the Tomioka design.

The Porst 1.4 / 55mm lenses must be clearly distinguished from Chinon 1.4 / 50mm PK lenses, which are also very sharp, but shorter, and use radioactive lens elements that tend to yellow. They were apparently made by Cosina.