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85mm/1.4 challenge
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: 85mm/1.4 challenge Reply with quote
REVEAL:
Detective ForenSeil has correctly deduced that the Zeiss Planar is the first image in each of the pairs.

A quick comparison for fun.
Four photos, two lenses, same camera, same tripod, same scenes, same settings, same conditions, wide open.
(background highlights in the second pair move around, they're sheep and wouldn't take direction from me)

In the red corner the Samyang 85/1.4 (mint condition), in the blue corner the Zeiss Planar 85/1.4 (good mechanically but with some coating loss and minor marks on front element) both lenses have deep, 3rd-party hoods.

Canon 5D2, 2 second timer, MLU, remote control, Red Snapper tripod. Shot in raw, uploaded to Lightroom 5.3 and exported as jpeg.

Which is which? And which do you prefer?






I've already packaged one of these up and it will be posted on Monday to it's new owner.

Last edited by SonicScot on Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Second looks to have much better microcontrast so I'm guessing that's the Planar


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd choose the lens of the second shot from each series as it has a smoother rendering.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
#1 is very good but #2 is even better - I also think it's the Planar
In my experience the colors and contrast of the Samyang makes a huge step when stopped down to F2

Btw. have you seen samples for the latest 85/1.4 Planar versions? Shocked
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic12310.html
Looks even better than Contax Planar

Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Second looks to have much better microcontrast so I'm guessing that's the Planar


+1

But all i own is the Rokinon (Samyang)...


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks pretty close to me! I changed my Samyang for the Planar because:

a) Greater pop
b) Zeiss is easier to focus at wide apertures
c) I picked one up cheap Laughing

Really depends what condition your Planar is/was in Wink


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was hoping to see more of a difference. The bokeh of the first is more busy, but still something I like. The second is technically better. Other than that, I don't see anything that would justify a big difference in price when considering IQ alone. I would choose the Samyang mostly because of the price difference. When it comes to pop, I can't see any appreciable difference and in other photos I've seen, pop is something that has really impressed me with the Samyang. But offer me a Planar at the same price and I'll surely take it. Remember, when using either of these lenses, you will probably appreciate the performance equally since you won't have a competing lens picture next to each one you take.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two more, same order, this time at distance.

Wide open still.




@Graham, the Samyang looks mint but the Zeiss has a horrible looking front element which I would really like to replace. The problem is finding a donor lens of course.
Here it is:

[url=http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201311/big_4959_zeiss_planar_85142_1.jpg]
[/url]


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Both nice I take happily both, Planar is fine no big deal enjoy them!


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SonicScot wrote:
Two more, same order, this time at distance.

Wide open still.


....

Hmm looks like more glow than my Samyang produces based on my memories. I've never used mine at infinty though, only ~40m when wide open to try it.

Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
Hmm looks like more glow than my Samyang produces from my memories. I've never used mine at infinty though, only ~40m when wide open to try it.

So you think this is the Samyang? Smile


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SonicScot wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
Hmm looks like more glow than my Samyang produces from my memories. I've never used mine at infinty though, only ~40m when wide open to try it.

So you think this is the Samyang? Smile

I'm not so sure anymore Wink
Bokeh is hard to judge is they are pretty similar, but on closer examination of the samples above lens #1 might look a tad more Planar-ish to me.
Front element of the Planar looks really destroyed (wtf happended to that lens?), might cause that glow and lower contrast.
Usually Samyang has slightly less contrast wide open than the Planar but in such a case it might be the opptosite.

Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
I was hoping to see more of a difference. The bokeh of the first is more busy, but still something I like. The second is technically better. Other than that, I don't see anything that would justify a big difference in price when considering IQ alone. I would choose the Samyang mostly because of the price difference. When it comes to pop, I can't see any appreciable difference and in other photos I've seen, pop is something that has really impressed me with the Samyang. But offer me a Planar at the same price and I'll surely take it. Remember, when using either of these lenses, you will probably appreciate the performance equally since you won't have a competing lens picture next to each one you take.

I paid exactly the same amount for each lens, £170.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cross quoting from http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=36915 :
ManualFocus-G wrote:
...

Bokeh test - 100% crop

Planar



Samyang



...

Lens #1 crop from above:

Lens #2 crop from above:


Now I have changed my mind. Laughing
#1 is Planar and #2 Samyang

Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
SonicScot wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
Hmm looks like more glow than my Samyang produces from my memories. I've never used mine at infinty though, only ~40m when wide open to try it.

So you think this is the Samyang? Smile

Now I'm not so sure anymore Wink
Bokeh is hard to judge is they are pretty similar, but in the samples above #1 might look a tad more Planar-ish to me.
Front element of the Planar looks really destroyed (wtf happended to that lens?), might cause that glow and lower contrast.
Usually Samyang has slightly less contrast wide open than the Planar but in such a case it might be the opptosite.
Look at another comparision here: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=36915

I bought both lenses second hand so I don't know their history, but the Zeiss owner needs a slap Twisted Evil

I want to get into the Zeiss to clean it but I can't move the name ring, I don't have a tool that's suitable. There's a bit of dust inside which might make a tiny difference if I can clean it out. The best thing I could do is get a new front element but I don't know where to start looking for one.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get a spanner wrench for lenses then Wink It already improved at least 5 of my lenses (fungus and dust) - The ~20€ for such a tool is profitable, especially if lenses has fungus.

These a slightly overpriced, but I haven't found a better source yet: http://www.micro-tools.de/en/Lens-Tools-oxid/2/


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
Get a spanner wrench for lenses then Wink It already improved at least 5 of my lenses (fungus and dust) - The ~20€ for such a tool is profitable, especially if lenses has fungus.

These a slightly overpriced, but I haven't found a better source yet: http://www.micro-tools.de/en/Lens-Tools-oxid/2/

I have one, but I still can't get into it. The ring which the spanner fits into is below another ring with the lettering on it, I can't move that one at all.

REVEAL:
Detective ForenSeil has correctly deduced that the Zeiss Planar is the first image in each of the pairs. Very Happy

The Samyang does produce a smoother rendering but that doesn't mean it's better.

Like woodrim, I prefer the Planar's slightly busier rendering and that's the lens I will be keeping. I also find it easier to focus than the Samyang.
The damage does seem to cause a lower contrast in the photos but that's not difficult to fix in Lightroom. The Planar has a nicer focus movement too, plus it just feels better overall.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There was a cheap one at ffordes up until today...


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
There was a cheap one at ffordes up until today...

Wink Cool Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SonicScot wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
There was a cheap one at ffordes up until today...

Wink Cool Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SonicScot wrote:
Like woodrim, I prefer the Planar's slightly busier rendering and that's the lens I will be keeping. I also find it easier to focus than the Samyang.
The damage does seem to cause a lower contrast in the photos but that's not difficult to fix in Lightroom. The Planar has a nicer focus movement too, plus it just feels better overall.


To be clear, while I do like the Planar bokeh, and many other forms of imperfect bokeh, given the choice I would prefer the technically better bokeh of the Samyang. I still maintain my position of selecting the Samyang, and even more so now. I do understand that the feel of a lens is important too, but given the cost difference and performance similarities I would definitely be happy with the Samyang. Just have to wait for prices to drop more. In the meantime, my lust for an A7r is dominating all my future buying plans.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like bokeh without sharp edges, it should be as smooth as possible.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
SonicScot wrote:
Like woodrim, I prefer the Planar's slightly busier rendering and that's the lens I will be keeping. I also find it easier to focus than the Samyang.
The damage does seem to cause a lower contrast in the photos but that's not difficult to fix in Lightroom. The Planar has a nicer focus movement too, plus it just feels better overall.


To be clear, while I do like the Planar bokeh, and many other forms of imperfect bokeh, given the choice I would prefer the technically better bokeh of the Samyang. I still maintain my position of selecting the Samyang, and even more so now. I do understand that the feel of a lens is important too, but given the cost difference and performance similarities I would definitely be happy with the Samyang. Just have to wait for prices to drop more. In the meantime, my lust for an A7r is dominating all my future buying plans.

Financially I see your point if both lenses were new, as both of mine were the same price I was able to choose which works best for me. The Samyang is a great lens at a great price, but there's something about the Planar which grabs me. It's just a feeling but I think it's an important part of photography, the Samyang doesn't make me feel the same. Similar to when I sold my Planar 50/1.7 and kept the Nikon 50/1.2, I'm not saying one is better than the other but the Nikon feels better. The difference in the results from these lenses is minimal but, to me, it feels like I'm getting better images. Smile
Does that make sense?


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lens number one is the Planar. The slightly harsh bokeh (which I like) gives it away as does the greater contrast. The Samyang is very sharp and smooth, with good microcontrast and it has a very modern look. The Samyang might be the better lens at 1.4 but I would choose the Contax for its character.

But I could be wrong Very Happy

EDIT: Oh, I didn't notice page two of this thread. Turns out I was correct ( I didn't cheat, promise Twisted Evil )


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pontus wrote:
Lens number one is the Planar. The slightly harsh bokeh (which I like) gives it away as does the greater contrast. The Samyang is very sharp and smooth, with good microcontrast and it has a very modern look. The Samyang might be the better lens at 1.4 but I would choose the Contax for its character.

But I could be wrong Very Happy

EDIT: Oh, I didn't notice page two of this thread. Turns out I was correct ( I didn't cheat, promise Twisted Evil )

We trust ya Wink
Thanks for your input. Smile
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