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28-50mm zoom lenses
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
One lens is still missing in this discussion : the Fuji Fujinon-Z 29-47 mm f/ 3.5-4.2 Lens which was alledgedly built in both the Fujica-M42 and Fujica-X mounts. It sems to be a very good lens even though it doesn't benefit from the EBC multi - coating. I've only got the "big brother" with similar construction, the X-Fujinon-Z EBC 2,8-3,7/35-70 mm which is excellent both in sharpness and build quality.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Obviously there is a disparity in this focal range. Small and compact zooms aimed at consumers who carry it around on trips and larger hefty ones more aimed at the professional looking for the best IQ.


Yes, one could argue like that. But I guess that the heavier ones like the Canon and Yashica 28-50 mm were just older lenses designed in the later half of the 1970s which kept selling because they offered excellent optics. Starting at the beginning of the 1980s, every lens maker wanted to offer small and (relatively) light lenses even if this meant lowering the quality standards a little bit. Nethertheless, some compact lenses still offer superb performance. The Olympus 28-48 mm, for instance, is outstanding while the Pentaw SMC 28-50 mm f/3,5-4,5 is lacking outside of the image center.


The Pentax first saw the light in 1975 at the launch of the K-mount and was continued into the Pentax-m line. I am sure the Olympus won't be far off I think it was them that started the race to the most compact system with Pentax. I think it was hard to create a zoom that went from wide to short tele. That's why we see these 28-50's. The 35-70's were only introduced in the Pentax A-mount (apart from the 1979 Pentax-m 35-70 2.8-3.5 which is a big lens for that range and a very good one. But that was probably an expensive one back then). Later on there came the 28-70/80's mainly I think because the market wanted more range, but in general those are poor lenses. The more limited range ones offer better IQ.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:

Volker, I have always been interested in this 28 50 3,5 I do not own. You just answered the question I had in mind: this lens also has the slider bearings issue.

Does the later 28 55 nFD suffers from the same problem?

Yes, it does - at least my copy (in spite of what Volker said). The focusing ring of my sample - which does have glider bearings as well, and not the more common focusing thread - has a play of about 1-1.5 mm. Obviously the glider bearings are gone or at least damaged.

lumens pixel wrote:
And does the image quality compares if you happen to have tested this lens?

That would interest me as well Wink

lumens pixel wrote:
I would like a wide range of non issue FD zooms and I am quite happy at the long end with the 70 210 f4. I need to find the counterpart on the short end...

Most of my professional landscape / cityscape work is done with a pair of modern 2.8/16-35mm plus 2.8/70-200mm zooms. On 24MP FF hey can be used wide open without hesitation (even for critical landscapes), and the built-in sensor stabilizer of my cameras allows me to take pictures in twilight without tripod. The 16-35 usually is on the camera, and the 70-200mm is attached to the belt via its tripod collar. Very convenient, and easy to use. I would suggest you get a Canon nFD 20-35mm L which is quite small and lightweight. The range from 20mm to 200mm is really useful, and if you occasionally need something around 50mm you can either crop a 35mm image or merge three 70mm images.

lumens pixel wrote:
Alternatively I think you should open a business of slider bearing overhaul and you would be blessed for that.

Yep, that reminds of my FD 2.8/35.70mm which should be serviced ... especially since I have all the necessary stuff here ... Wink

D1N0 wrote:
Obviously there is a disparity in this focal range. Small and compact zooms aimed at consumers who carry it around on trips and larger hefty ones more aimed at the professional looking for the best IQ.

These "professional" large and hefty 28-50mm are pretty rare here in Switzerland. I may have seen the FD 3.5/28-50mm two or three times, and the Yashica once, but never was willing to pay the amount requested. There's also the Nikkor 3.5/28-45mm (in fact the very first of its class!!), but paying >200 CHF / USD / EUR for it is out of question.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Yes, it does - at least my copy (in spite of what Volker said). The focusing ring of my sample - which does have glider bearings as well, and not the more common focusing thread - has a play of about 1-1.5 mm. Obviously the glider bearings are gone or at least damaged.


Stephan, as far is I know (I've aleady opened the 35-70 mm f/3,5-4,5 to service it), the FD 28-55 mm has white nylon slider bearings which should last longer but not forever Wink The play might correspond as well to play in the flimsy construction of the lens

stevemark wrote:


I would suggest you get a Canon nFD 20-35mm L which is quite small and lightweight


Good idea, even though the lens is very expensive (up to 300 euros). Furthermore, it suffers as well from the silder bearings issue and I would be weary to spend that much for a lens which needs an overhaul from the start. BTW, my sample was a mere 25 Euros so it was worth the trouble to open it and to change the sliders Wink

stevemark wrote:

These "professional" large and hefty 28-50mm are pretty rare here in Switzerland. I may have seen the FD 3.5/28-50mm two or three times, and the Yashica once, but never was willing to pay the amount requested. There's also the Nikkor 3.5/28-45mm (in fact the very first of its class!!), but paying >200 CHF / USD / EUR for it is out of question.


I agree, I'm looking for the Yashica 28-50 mm but i haven't found a sample yet I could afford. The 28-45 mm Nikkor seems to be quite OK but i've already got the superior Nikkor Ai 25-50 mm.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
stevemark wrote:


Yes, it does - at least my copy (in spite of what Volker said). The focusing ring of my sample - which does have glider bearings as well, and not the more common focusing thread - has a play of about 1-1.5 mm. Obviously the glider bearings are gone or at least damaged.


Stephan, as far is I know (I've aleady opened the 35-70 mm f/3,5-4,5 to service it), the FD 28-55 mm has white nylon slider bearings which should last longer but not forever Wink The play might correspond as well to play in the flimsy construction of the lens

stevemark wrote:


I would suggest you get a Canon nFD 20-35mm L which is quite small and lightweight


Good idea, even though the lens is very expensive (up to 300 euros). Furthermore, it suffers as well from the silder bearings issue and I would be weary to spend that much for a lens which needs an overhaul from the start. BTW, my sample was a mere 25 Euros so it was worth the trouble to open it and to change the sliders Wink

stevemark wrote:

These "professional" large and hefty 28-50mm are pretty rare here in Switzerland. I may have seen the FD 3.5/28-50mm two or three times, and the Yashica once, but never was willing to pay the amount requested. There's also the Nikkor 3.5/28-45mm (in fact the very first of its class!!), but paying >200 CHF / USD / EUR for it is out of question.


I agree, I'm looking for the Yashica 28-50 mm but i haven't found a sample yet I could afford. The 28-45 mm Nikkor seems to be quite OK but i've already got the superior Nikkor Ai 25-50 mm.


I personnally would not favor the 20 35 because of price and unresolved slider bearings. I amm quite happy also between 40 and 55 mm and a lot of my photos tend to match the diagonal of the format. So a 20 35 would push me to add a 50 in the bag. Hence the quest for the something to 50.

My actual 28-50 is a 28-80: the tamron 27A. So it is off topic but truly good between 28 and 60 at f5,6 and until 80mm at f6,7 or 8.

The 120 € combo 27A + FD 70 210 provides a nice focal range with only a lens in the bag, the other on the camera if you drop the first stops for optimal quality.

So one could say I am covered, but a smaller wide end zoom would be nice (my hopes for the 28 55...).


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just have been searching for the Cosinon and the Osawa 3.5-4.5/28-50mm on my attic Wink - turns out the Cosinon and the Osawa have the same optical constuction (judging from the identical reflexions)! I have tested them at f=28mm, 35mm, and 50mm against the aforementioned Mamiya Sekor E 3.5-4.5/28-50mm (which clearly has a different optical construction). The Osawa/Cosinon is much weaker at f=28mm, about equal at f=35mm, and better at f=50mm.

With the Osawa/Cosinon, large parts of the image are really unsharp at 3.5/28mm. Even stopped down to f11, the image corners are not really sharp (always takling about 24MP FF).

At f=35mm and wide open, the corners are pretty soft, and at 50mm most of the image is pleasantly soft ("the glow") at f4.5, quite similar to the Sekor E 1.7/50mm at f1.7! Stopping down to f11, both focal lengths result in quite good images. All softness is gone, but you'll see some remaining lateral CAs (more than with e. g. the Sekor E 1.7/50mm). Overall quite OK, but ... i'ts not a prime!

S


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
I just have been searching for the Cosinon and the Osawa 3.5-4.5/28-50mm on my attic Wink - turns out the Cosinon and the Osawa have the same optical constuction (judging from the identical reflexions)! I have tested them at f=28mm, 35mm, and 50mm against the aforementioned Mamiya Sekor E 3.5-4.5/28-50mm (which clearly has a different optical construction). The Osawa/Cosinon is much weaker at f=28mm, about equal at f=35mm, and better at f=50mm.

With the Osawa/Cosinon, large parts of the image are really unsharp at 3.5/28mm. Even stopped down to f11, the image corners are not really sharp (always takling about 24MP FF).

At f=35mm and wide open, the corners are pretty soft, and at 50mm most of the image is pleasantly soft ("the glow") at f4.5, quite similar to the Sekor E 1.7/50mm at f1.7! Stopping down to f11, both focal lengths result in quite good images. All softness is gone, but you'll see some remaining lateral CAs (more than with e. g. the Sekor E 1.7/50mm). Overall quite OK, but ... i'ts not a prime!

S


Does the Cosinon look like this?

#1


#2


I can also find images of the Osawa. Looks somewhat larger than the Cosinon to my eyes.



#1


#2


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
These are the four lenses I have mentioned before:



After closer inspection I have noticed that the reflexes on the Cosinon and the Osawa are nearly identical from the front side, but clearly different when looking from the back side. Thus the two optical constructions are NOT identical, contrary to what I erroneously had written in my earler posting. Sorry about this mistake!!

S


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:

Does the Cosinon look like this?

Almost. Mine says only "Cosinon", and not "Cosinon-Z". Otherwise it looks the sae as yours!


D1N0 wrote:

I can also find images of the Osawa. Looks somewhat larger than the Cosinon to my eyes.

The Osawa seems slightly larger due to the larger focusing ring. Apart from this, the two lenses have the same size. See image above!

S


PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's a Yashica if affordable or not depends on how bad you want it Wink

https://zenmarket.jp/en/auction.aspx?itemCode=q1049410253


PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My first 28-50mm is coming in. It'll be a while yet. It is quite common in Japan it seems



PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Second. Looks like it has hardly been used Vivitar 28-50mm 1:3.5-4.5



PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have ordered a FD 28 55 and will tell you how it goes.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:
I have ordered a FD 28 55 and will tell you how it goes.


Like 1


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:

I can also find images of the Osawa. Looks somewhat larger than the Cosinon to my eyes.

#1


#2


Usually osawa lenses are sun


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:


Usually osawa lenses are sun


Could be. It does have the aperture values the "wrong" way around

I put all off brand offerings I haven't listed yet in an ebay list for future reference.





PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as read in 1980s photo magazines, Osawa made its own lenses in at least two different factories even though they might have started distributing other makers lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Osawa bought Mamiya in the early 80s, I forget what other brands they owned.

Whoever made them, the Osawa branded lenses I've played with were pretty poor.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't find any samples from or reviews about this Sigma. The brightest offering I can find in this range. 28-50mm F2.8-3.5 Zoom Micron. The brightest I could find in this range. There was one on Yahoo Japan so I snapped it up. Hoping it still functions reasonably. Glass looks just smudged. according to the UK sigma website it's from 1981: https://www.sigma-imaging-uk.com/lounge/sigma-history-1961-2010/
#1


#2


seller pics

Meanwhile I have updated the first post regularly.

Last edited by D1N0 on Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Can't find any samples from or reviews about this Sigma. The brightest offering I can find in this range. 28-50mm F2.8-3.5 Zoom Micron. The brightest I could find in this range. There was one on Yahoo Japan so I snapped it up. Hoping it still functions reasonably. Glass looks just smudged. according to the UK sigma website it's from 1991: https://www.sigma-imaging-uk.com/lounge/sigma-history-1961-2010/

...

Meanwhile I have updated the first post regularly.


Judging from the cosmetics that one pre-dates their disastrous "ZEN" soft-touch coating, so you should at least be OK on that front Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I mistyped it's from 1981, well before any fancy soft touch lens finishes :p


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow had no idea they made one. I know around this time they were coming out with alot of similar lenses, but thats interesting.

Almost reminds me of my search for 35-150mm f3.5-4.5 zooms which a smattering were made of also around that time. Very useful focal range and aperture, as long as f4.5 doesn't kick in too early.

Same goes for 50-200mm f3.5-4.5 lenses.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
After the Pentax, Vivitar and Sigma now also two Tamron's (because one of them was so cheap I got it anyway even though I had already won another one....)


#1


#2


Last edited by D1N0 on Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only lens I've used that fits the requirements (but no longer own) was the Fujinon 29-47mm in Fujica screw (M42).
A wonderful piece of optics in it's day, used extensively on my Fujica AZ-1 and ST801 slrs.
I must admit, it was eventually retired, along with it's 43-75mm stablemate, in favour of a Tamron 28-80mm and later a Tamron 28-200mm … purely for convenience, the quality couldn't be faulted Smile


PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PBFACTS wrote:
D1N0 wrote:

I can also find images of the Osawa. Looks somewhat larger than the Cosinon to my eyes.

#1


#2


Usually osawa lenses are sun


Yesterday i saw a pic of the cimko 28-50
Except the rubbers , certainly the same
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