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what are the different helios 44 versions
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
I ahve seen 44-2 44-4 and now a 44-6. Are they optically the same?


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I m not a specialist of the Helios , but I think they are some differences ...
For exemple if I remember well , all the versions have not the same number of blades.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
hacksawbob wrote:
I ahve seen 44-2 44-4 and now a 44-6. Are they optically the same?


If I understand correctly Jean-Loup Princelle's book, the number after the model reference seems to be the version of the lens. The Helios 44M was made in 8 different versions, numbered from 44M to 44M-7. The only variations between the different versions seem to be related to the finish, mechanics or coating of the lens. All the different versions seem to be optically identical.

There were also many different Helios-44 models, differing by their mount or aperture actuation mechanism. The letter "M" at the end of the designation (Helios-44M) indicates an automatic diaphragm actuation, "I" or "7" denotes a special bayonet for Zenit-7 cameras, "D" is for Zenit-D auto lens, "K" stands for Pentax K bayonet...

There seem to be dozens of different Helios-44 lenses. Maybe there are collectors specialized in this lens only Laughing

Cheers,

Abbazz


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thanks collecting these would be a nice cheap hobby!


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are also differences in the resolving power, the later lenses being more resolving than the older ones. The Helios-44-7 has significantly higher resolving power than the original Helios-44.
Obviously, this does not make it by itself a better lens necessarily. For instance, bad Helios copies are more frequent in the later versions than in the early ones.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
hacksawbob wrote:
I ahve seen 44-2 44-4 and now a 44-6. Are they optically the same?


If I understand correctly Jean-Loup Princelle's book, the number after the model reference seems to be the version of the lens. The Helios 44M was made in 8 different versions, numbered from 44M to 44M-7. The only variations between the different versions seem to be related to the finish, mechanics or coating of the lens. All the different versions seem to be optically identical.

There were also many different Helios-44 models, differing by their mount or aperture actuation mechanism. The letter "M" at the end of the designation (Helios-44M) indicates an automatic diaphragm actuation, "I" or "7" denotes a special bayonet for Zenit-7 cameras, "D" is for Zenit-D auto lens, "K" stands for Pentax K bayonet...

There seem to be dozens of different Helios-44 lenses. Maybe there are collectors specialized in this lens only Laughing

Cheers,

Abbazz


Michael is our expert on Helios 44s Smile

I may be wrong, but I've got a feeling the different numbers might refer to the factories where they were made. I've seen a 44M-6, I think made by Zavod Arsenal, which has a completely different style barrel to my 44M-4 made by Valdai. My 44M nothing was made by KMZ and the 44-2 by MMZ. You can work out the factory by looking up the logo on the lens on this site (or if you understand Russian, this site is more complete).

edit: P.S. The original Helios 44 was the M39 version for early Zenit SLRs (and others). The 44-2 was the M42 version, both of which are the old pre-set design.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
I may be wrong, but I've got a feeling the different numbers might refer to the factories where they were made. [...] and the 44-2 by MMZ.

I guess that is not true, as I have a Valda? made Helios-44-2 lens (see my avatar or here).

According the J.-L. Princelle 2nd edition book, KMZ is the main maker of Helios lens (including H-44-2), there is also a H-44-2 made by MMZ BelOMO as yours, among another (he has not listed the Valda? version).


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with Orio. My friend has 44M-2 version with 8 aperture blades and 44M-6 version with 6 aperture blades. The second lens is sharper, but I can't say that older version is bad. I also have MC Helios 44M-6 - I'm lucky, my copy isn't a lemon Smile Good sharpness, contrast and colours, but poor work against sunlight (typical for this lens). Look at my sample (F/5.6; E-300; ISO 400; 1/80, hand-held):


100% crop, without any post-processing (only converted from RAW):





PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
Flor27 wrote:
peterqd wrote:
I may be wrong, but I've got a feeling the different numbers might refer to the factories where they were made. [...] and the 44-2 by MMZ.

I guess that is not true, as I have a Valda? made Helios-44-2 lens (see my avatar or here).


OK, that's that theory out of the window then! Smile But maybe it still could be true of the later 44M- lenses. Michael knows I'm sure.

My 44-2 is probably an early model as it has the bright shiny fluted sections on the focus ring, like a "Zebra" lens abd the diaphragm has 8 blades. The serial number is N9038768, but it is certainly older than 1990, and it's definitely MMZ.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My Helios has this logo: but I've seen these lenses with other logos. BTW is anybody who can tell something about years of production Helios 44 versions? Smile


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maxim wrote:
My Helios has this logo: but I've seen these lenses with other logos. BTW is anybody who can tell something about years of production Helios 44 versions? Smile


This is Valdai logo.
As far as I know the only person who can give complete information on Helioses is Michael - but he does not seem to follow much the forum anymore Sad

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maxim wrote:
My Helios has this logo: but I've seen these lenses with other logos. BTW is anybody who can tell something about years of production Helios 44 versions? Smile

As Orio said, it's a Valda?, same as mine Wink
J.-L Princelle said in its book that H-44-2 "The Classic" in black finish was producted from 1955 to 1978 by KMZ, MMZ BelOMO and Valda?.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
OK, that's that theory out of the window then! Smile But maybe it still could be true of the later 44M- lenses.


No, that's not true either. I just found a pictures of an M-5 and an M-6, both made by Valdai like my M-4. Forget what I said - this is getting too complicated!

Hi Hubert. Yes, that's the Valdai logo too. What version of the lens do you have? USSR lenses made within a certain range of dates have the year as the first two digits of the serial number. For instance the serial of my 44M-4 is 86023346 so it was made in 1986. There's a thread here somewhere with much more information about this, I'm trying to find it.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Flor, this site http://tinyurl.com/2kjz82 has pictures of the Helios 44, 44-2 and later 44Ms. The top picture of the Zenit 3M camera with M39 mount, shows a Helios 44 lens with the bright fluting I described. My lens looks like this, but mine is a 44-2 with M42 thread.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Hi Hubert. Yes, that's the Valdai logo too. What version of the lens do you have?

Thanks for your advice, it was very helpful for me! My Helios 44M-6 probably was made in 1991 (SN 91316987). So... it's my newest lens (I haven't any AF lenses for my E-300). I'm very interested when were made my other lenses Smile


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Flor, this site http://tinyurl.com/2kjz82 has pictures of the Helios 44, 44-2 and later 44Ms. The top picture of the Zenit 3M camera with M39 mount, shows a Helios 44 lens with the bright fluting I described. My lens looks like this, but mine is a 44-2 with M42 thread.

Mine is like the second one on this site (attached to the Zenit E), serial n° 7637348. I got it with a Zenit E camera (serial n° 76207676) from its first owner. Intersting thing is that I got a Jupiter-11A along with them, serial n°767605 so I guess they were all made in 1976.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: what are the different helios 44 versions Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
Maybe there are collectors specialized in this lens only Laughing

Cheers,

Abbazz


The nearest we have is Michael (Borges). Here's his lens list:
Click here


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice having found it Peter,

That makes me link to this russian page :

http://www.zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Somewhere (I can't remember where) I have read that the numbers show newer versions that often have been "improved" a little, but improvement, they wrote, referred to sharpness and resolution.
So depending on your personal favours an older lens can rather be your choice than a newer one.
I can to a certain extent confirm that. My 44M-6 is a little sharper than my 44-2, but the "original" 44-2 seems to show a nicer personality as a lens. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry for my absence, but spare time is very small in the moment because we have much to do in preparating everything for Yvonne's business in photography.´I will try to describe the different versions I know:

Helios 44:
M39 ltm or slr, successor of the BTK (Biotar Krasnogorsk), manual aperture

Helios 44-2 (for example from KMZ or Valdai):
M42, nearly the same as Helios 44, manual aperture

Helios 44-2 (MMZ/Belomo-Version):
Same number but mechanical different. Rear-focusing, so there are problems with some adapters. Manual aperture

Helios 44-3 (only MMZ/Belomo):
improved version

Helios 44-3M
Again another barrel, not often seen in the wild

Helios 44-7
For Zenit 7, I've never seen it in the wild

Helios 44M
I call it the "interim version", because it has a switch for automatic/manual aperture.

Helios 44M-4
The first of the "modern" automatic only versions. Made by different manufacturers

Helios 44M5, 6, 7
Made by different manufacturers. Main difference is the resolution, see table at http://zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-44.html

And to make even more confusion there are MC and non-MC versions of most types. And I have seen some very special ones for optical or medical instruments and infrared photography. Not to talk about the "K"-Version with K-Mount.

In a broader sense the Helios 77 is also part of this family. Here the optical scheme is used for a wider focal length (52mm instead of 58mm), possible because of the better materials and experiences. And I'm very sure that there are a many more versions to found in the wild - I have only 14 different at home Shocked

Michael


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks, Michael. Great information.
I was going to write that the older 44s have manual control and the newer ones are auto lenses. I cannot use my 44M-6 at my Zenit E, only at my Zenit EM.
But you have mentioned it (and more) already!


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Michael.

Borges wrote:
Helios 44-7
For Zenit 7, I've never seen it in the wild


http://www.photozimmermann.ch/page1/page40/page40.html - scroll down Smile


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wrong lens I think Peter, read the post again, the lens you found is:

Borges wrote:
Helios 44M5, 6, 7
Made by different manufacturers. Main difference is the resolution, see table at http://zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


I think this may be the correct one:

http://www.rus-camera.com/camera.php?page=zenit&camera=zenit7


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Super Tak wrote:
Wrong lens I think Peter, read the post again, the lens you found is:

Borges wrote:
Helios 44M5, 6, 7
Made by different manufacturers. Main difference is the resolution, see table at http://zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


I think this may be the correct one:

http://www.rus-camera.com/camera.php?page=zenit&camera=zenit7


Ah yes, my mistake.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I always wondered how the 44-3 compared to the 44-2. A big controversy surrounds the helios line because of all the factories involved in their production. The Valdai and KMZ plants produced primarily for the export market, while the MMZ (soon transformed into Belomo) produced for the domestic. The general opinion is that the cameras/lenses with Latin (export) are of better quality than the Cyrillic (domestic).

Just the way that the communist regime ran itself is a testament to this opinion. Quantity over quality was often the running motto. However the Soviet Union still needed to present itself as a technological power, therefore the products produced for the west were to demonstrate that achievement. Therefore you have cameras for the export market like the Voskhod that was way ahead of its time.

Anyways the helios 44-3 was only produced by MMZ but the 44-2 was produced by all three. Has anyone done a comparative study between the two?

Thanks in advance
~Marc
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