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vanylapep
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 312
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: What's some great pancakes? |
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vanylapep wrote:
Hi,
I use the A7rii with vintage lenses (with adapter) and I find the combo "big" when taking photos at events such as house parties, when I prefer to be "subtle" and light.
Since I won't change the camera, I am looking for good thin lens, do you have any suggestions? I would think in the 35mm to 50mm range.
Thank you.
EDIT: To give you an idea, I now mainly use the Rokkor MC 50mm 1.4, Oreston 50mm 1.4, Nikkor AiS 28mm 2.8 for such occasions. |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
I really like to use the Voigtlaender VM Nokton 40mm/F1.4 on the A7R II, preferibly on the Techart PRO adapter with AF functionality.
It's a very small and versatile lens and the picture quality is very good. Even the smallest SLR pancake lens, such as the Pentax 40/2.8 would be much bigger, if you add the adapter.
Shot with my Ricoh GXR-M and the 7Artisans M 50mm/F1.1
Obviously I have to remove some dust. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Size comparison between the Pentax pancake 40/2.8 and the CV Nokton 40/1.4 both mounted on required E-mount adapter:
_________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16544 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
_________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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kypfer
Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 516 Location: Jersey C.I.
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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kypfer wrote:
Have you considered a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 in M39 mount? It "looks" a bit on the large side when viewed alone, but considering a Leica-screw adaptor has very little additional thickness, compared to a PK adaptor, it can make for a reasonably compact assembly.
I'd suggest an Orion-15 for a wider view, but at f/6 maximum aperture it's only really useful outdoors. Will a Jupiter-12 fit on your camera? That's quite a compact 35mm f/2.8 if the rear element doesn't protrude too far for your body.
Just a couple of thoughts |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
kypfer wrote: |
Have you considered a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 in M39 mount? It "looks" a bit on the large side when viewed alone, but considering a Leica-screw adaptor has very little additional thickness, compared to a PK adaptor, it can make for a reasonably compact assembly.
I'd suggest an Orion-15 for a wider view, but at f/6 maximum aperture it's only really useful outdoors. Will a Jupiter-12 fit on your camera? That's quite a compact 35mm f/2.8 if the rear element doesn't protrude too far for your body.
Just a couple of thoughts |
OK, to put things into the right perspective:
From left to right 1. Orion-15 28/6, 2. CV Nokton 40/1.4, 3. Jupiter-8 50/2 and 4. Jupiter-12 35/2.8 all mounted on proper NEX/E-mount adapter:
The Orion-15 wins, but the Jupiter-12 and the CV Nokton seem to be quite equal in size and the biggest lens is the Jupiter-8. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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vanylapep
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 312
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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vanylapep wrote:
Wow thank you for the comparisons and suggestions!
tb_a, nice set
Do you happen to have any of the following for size comparison purpose: Rokkor 50 1.4, Zenitar 50 1.7, Super-Takumar 50 1.4, Pentacon 50 1.4, Rollei 50 1.4 (those are some of my lens).
I really like the size of the Orion-15 for white and many street photos. For indoor, the Nokton 40 1.4 looks good.
EDIT: I meant, wide* and maybe* street photos.
Last edited by vanylapep on Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6009 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
7artisans 35mm F1.2 is tiny, cheap and very good, and needs no adapter.
Tom |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
vanylapep wrote: |
Wow thank you for the comparisons and suggestions!
tb_a, nice set
Do you happen to have any of the following for size comparison purpose: Rokkor 50 1.4, Zenitar 50 1.7, Super-Takumar 50 1.4, Pentacon 50 1.4, Rollei 50 1.4 (those are some of my lens).
I really like the size of the Orion-15 for white and many street photos. For indoor, the Nokton 40 1.4 looks good. |
OK, here we go....
From left to right all mounted on E-mount adapters: 1. CV Nokton 40/1.4, 2. Super-Takumar 50/1.4, 3. MD Rokkor 50/1.4 and 4. Zenitar 50/1.7. Sorry, no Pentacon and the Rollei only in F1.8 version (Apprx. the same size like the ST 50/1.4).
_________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
7artisans 35mm F1.2 is tiny, cheap and very good, and needs no adapter. |
This is only for APS-C, but there is a M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras which isn't very big as well. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6009 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
Oldhand wrote: |
7artisans 35mm F1.2 is tiny, cheap and very good, and needs no adapter. |
This is only for APS-C, but there is a M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras which isn't very big as well. |
Yes, that's right.
There are plenty of examples of images from the M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras that show how good it can be.
Well worth investigating for its size and ability alone
Tom |
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vanylapep
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 312
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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vanylapep wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
vanylapep wrote: |
Wow thank you for the comparisons and suggestions!
tb_a, nice set
Do you happen to have any of the following for size comparison purpose: Rokkor 50 1.4, Zenitar 50 1.7, Super-Takumar 50 1.4, Pentacon 50 1.4, Rollei 50 1.4 (those are some of my lens).
I really like the size of the Orion-15 for white and many street photos. For indoor, the Nokton 40 1.4 looks good. |
OK, here we go....
From left to right all mounted on E-mount adapters: 1. CV Nokton 40/1.4, 2. Super-Takumar 50/1.4, 3. MD Rokkor 50/1.4 and 4. Zenitar 50/1.7. Sorry, no Pentacon and the Rollei only in F1.8 version (Apprx. the same size like the ST 50/1.4). |
WOW thank you!!! The Nokton is almost half the size!! Really good option! You are using the Leica M mount? |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
vanylapep wrote: |
The Nokton is almost half the size!! Really good option! You are using the Leica M mount? |
Yep! I don't like manual focus RF lenses in E-mount because I want to use them on Techart PRO which operates very nicely on the A7R II with full AF functionality (better than the Sony LA-EA4 for the A-mount lenses) additionally it reduces the MFD drastically if you set the MFD to minimum on the lens. Last but not least, the problem with color shift with RF wide angle lenses like on the older 24MP A7s doesn't exist on the A7R II with the new BSI-CMOS sensor. Furthermore I still have my Ricoh GXR-M and a Bessa R2 where I want to use all my RF lenses as well. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
There are plenty of examples of images from the M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras that show how good it can be.
Well worth investigating for its size and ability alone |
Indeed, looks promising. I've got the M 50/1.1 and it's not bad at all, particularly for that price. However, I've got the CV 35/1.7 which is an excellent small RF lens already; i.e. for me this new 7Artisans lens comes too late. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 761 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
My favorite pancake is an old silver Industar-50 f/3.5. Mine's from 1957.
It's surprisingly sharp and it has nice bokeh. Also, I think it's the most fun manual lens I've ever tried. It's so cute you want to tousle it's hair and buy it a lollipop.
Did I mention they're cheap too? |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
KEO wrote: |
My favorite pancake is an old silver Industar-50 f/3.5. Mine's from 1957.
It's surprisingly sharp and it has nice bokeh. Also, I think it's the most fun manual lens I've ever tried. It's so cute you want to tousle it's hair and buy it a lollipop.
Did I mention they're cheap too? |
This is indeed a very cheap lens. My KMZ made lens is from 1967 and the "Rigid Chrome" version. A classical Tessar.
Size comparison:
_________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Abbazz
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 1098 Location: Jakarta
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Abbazz wrote:
There is a nice resource available online that shows the length of many compact lenses (including adapters) when mounted on Sony A7 series cameras: http://antineutrino.net/2016/04/15/smallest-lenses-sony-a7
The 40/1.4 Nokton is indeed a tiny lens, especially considering its fast aperture but, as far as I know, the flattest pancake in Sony FE mount (i.e. including adapter) is the C/V 40/2.8 Heliar. Here it is on my Sony A7II, complete with its lens hood, first in the collapsed position:
And now fully extended, ready to shoot:
Compared with the 40/1.4 Nokton without hood (collapsed):
And extended:
Its image quality is very good for a pancake, with a beautiful Heliar rendering, well suited for portraiture, when used wide open and good sharpness when stopped down:
Cheers!
Abbazz _________________ Il n'y a rien dans le monde qui n'ait son moment decisif, et le chef-d'oeuvre de la bonne conduite est de connaitre et de prendre ce moment. - Cardinal de Retz
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource:
http://artbig.com/ |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:33 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Abbazz wrote: |
The 40/1.4 Nokton is indeed a tiny lens, especially considering its fast aperture but, as far as I know, the flattest pancake in Sony FE mount (i.e. including adapter) is the C/V 40/2.8 Heliar. |
Indeed, this lens is the smallest.
However, if you don't have the special adapter already, the lens/adapter combination is more expensive than the Nokton with normal adapter and the faster Nokton seems to be more versatile.
Another option would be the Leitz Summicron 50mm/F2 "Collapsible" which isn't bad as well:
_________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Abbazz
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 1098 Location: Jakarta
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Abbazz wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
However, if you don't have the special adapter already, the lens/adapter combination is more expensive than the Nokton with normal adapter and the faster Nokton seems to be more versatile. |
In fact, both lenses don't have much in common, except the focal length. But the Heliar is cheaper: approximately $430 for the lens + focusing adapter (Click here to see on Ebay) vs. $449 for the Nokton without adapter (Cameraquest prices). In fact, a close focus adapter would also be required to use the Nokton on a Sony camera, in order to mitigate the poor native close focusing ability of the lens (0.7m), thus bringing the total cost to about $480.
tb_a wrote: |
Another option would be the Leitz Summicron 50mm/F2 "Collapsible" which isn't bad as well |
I am not fond of the 50mm focal length on 24x36. The 40/2 Summicron/Rokkor of the Leica CL is more interesting IMHO (and smaller too) but I prefer both Cosina made 40mm lenses to the Summicron/Rokkor.
Cheers!
Abbazz _________________ Il n'y a rien dans le monde qui n'ait son moment decisif, et le chef-d'oeuvre de la bonne conduite est de connaitre et de prendre ce moment. - Cardinal de Retz
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource:
http://artbig.com/ |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
I'm not too sure any longer if the Heliar 40mm/F2.8 is really the smallest variant when collapsed.
I've checked my inventory and found the FED 50mm/F3.5 which is shown hereafter in collapsed and retracted postition next to the Orion-15 28/6 and the Nokton 40/1.4:
Please note that the FED in collapsed position will protude into the camera; therefore actually it's even smaller when mounted and unlike the heliar, it works completely with the standard adapter.
Nonetheless I strongly recommend to use all RF lenses on a close focus helicoid adapter as the standard MFD is not as good as on comparable SLR lenses. Obviously they are available quite reasonalbe nowadays (EUR 30.-). I've paid a fortune for mine.
Optically it's a decent performer and it still can be found very cheap.
I've already introduced it here: http://forum.mflenses.com/fed-50mm-f3-5-t79840.html
Cheers, _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
I'm not too sure any longer if the Heliar 40mm/F2.8 is really the smallest variant when collapsed.
I've checked my inventory and found the FED 50mm/F3.5 which is shown hereafter in collapsed and retracted postition next to the Orion-15 28/6 and the Nokton 40/1.4: ...
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Yep. I was thinking of the FED 50 3.5 too. Collapsed, I can't think of anything shallower.
Something else to think about vanylapep is how a lens affects the centre of gravity of the camera. For example, although the FED is small, it has some old school weight which is carried very close to the camera and makes the camera feel very nicely balanced in the hand. A pleasure to walk around with. |
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Sjak
Joined: 29 Sep 2017 Posts: 696
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Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Sjak wrote:
Some great lenses have been mentioned already.
My favorite tiny lenses:
- Leitz Summaron 3,5cm f/3.5
- Leica Summicron-C 40mm f/2.0
Both are pretty affordable.
The Elmar 90mm f/4.0 is also very compact and cheap.
In 50mm, Jupiter 3 (f/1.5) and Jupiter 8 (f/2.0, supercheap) are pretty compact.
The Orion-15 is also a good lens, but a bit more expensive. |
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chhayanat
Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Posts: 242 Location: The Cow Belt
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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:21 am Post subject: |
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chhayanat wrote:
tb_a wrote: |
I'm not too sure any longer if the Heliar 40mm/F2.8 is really the smallest variant when collapsed.
I've checked my inventory and found the FED 50mm/F3.5 which is shown hereafter in collapsed and retracted postition next to the Orion-15 28/6 and the Nokton 40/1.4:
Please note that the FED in collapsed position will protude into the camera; therefore actually it's even smaller when mounted and unlike the heliar, it works completely with the standard adapter.
Nonetheless I strongly recommend to use all RF lenses on a close focus helicoid adapter as the standard MFD is not as good as on comparable SLR lenses. Obviously they are available quite reasonalbe nowadays (EUR 30.-). I've paid a fortune for mine.
Optically it's a decent performer and it still can be found very cheap.
I've already introduced it here: http://forum.mflenses.com/fed-50mm-f3-5-t79840.html
Cheers, |
Very nice pancake collection.
In fact I was wondering when the FED 50/3.5 was going to show up. I use a FED 50/3.5 M42 sometimes on PK-mount DSLRs with a M42-PK mount adapter screwed on to the lens. It has a tendency to leave the adapter on the camera body. _________________ Chhayanat
Pentax-M 28/2.8; 35/2; 50/1.4; 100/2.8; 80-200/4.5; 400/5.6.
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35/2.4; Pancolar 50/1.8 (black).
Film cameras:
Zeiss Ikon Volta 135/6.3 Sonnar 9cm x 12 cm plate/sheet film;
Zeiss Ikon Ikonta 521 75/3.5 Novar (post-War) 6cm x 4.5cm
Pentax MX x 2 (black);
Digital bodies:
Pentax K200D;
Samsung GX-20; |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6009 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Two others that you might like to consider - both excellent lenses:
Hexanon AR 40mm f1.8 and Minolta MD 45mm f2
These can often be found cheaply as well
Tom |
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:44 am Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
Two others that you might like to consider - both excellent lenses:
Hexanon AR 40mm f1.8 and Minolta MD 45mm f2
These can often be found cheaply as well
Tom |
Look also for the Minolta Rokkor-TC 2.8/45. It is a true pancake (the 2.0/45 is more of a hockey puck) half the size of the 2.0/45. _________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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