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What's some great pancakes?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: What's some great pancakes? Reply with quote
Hi,

I use the A7rii with vintage lenses (with adapter) and I find the combo "big" when taking photos at events such as house parties, when I prefer to be "subtle" and light.

Since I won't change the camera, I am looking for good thin lens, do you have any suggestions? I would think in the 35mm to 50mm range.

Thank you.

EDIT: To give you an idea, I now mainly use the Rokkor MC 50mm 1.4, Oreston 50mm 1.4, Nikkor AiS 28mm 2.8 for such occasions.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I really like to use the Voigtlaender VM Nokton 40mm/F1.4 on the A7R II, preferibly on the Techart PRO adapter with AF functionality.
It's a very small and versatile lens and the picture quality is very good. Even the smallest SLR pancake lens, such as the Pentax 40/2.8 would be much bigger, if you add the adapter.



Shot with my Ricoh GXR-M and the 7Artisans M 50mm/F1.1

Obviously I have to remove some dust. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Size comparison between the Pentax pancake 40/2.8 and the CV Nokton 40/1.4 both mounted on required E-mount adapter:



PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you considered a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 in M39 mount? It "looks" a bit on the large side when viewed alone, but considering a Leica-screw adaptor has very little additional thickness, compared to a PK adaptor, it can make for a reasonably compact assembly.

I'd suggest an Orion-15 for a wider view, but at f/6 maximum aperture it's only really useful outdoors. Will a Jupiter-12 fit on your camera? That's quite a compact 35mm f/2.8 if the rear element doesn't protrude too far for your body.

Just a couple of thoughts Wink


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
Have you considered a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 in M39 mount? It "looks" a bit on the large side when viewed alone, but considering a Leica-screw adaptor has very little additional thickness, compared to a PK adaptor, it can make for a reasonably compact assembly.

I'd suggest an Orion-15 for a wider view, but at f/6 maximum aperture it's only really useful outdoors. Will a Jupiter-12 fit on your camera? That's quite a compact 35mm f/2.8 if the rear element doesn't protrude too far for your body.

Just a couple of thoughts Wink


OK, to put things into the right perspective:

From left to right 1. Orion-15 28/6, 2. CV Nokton 40/1.4, 3. Jupiter-8 50/2 and 4. Jupiter-12 35/2.8 all mounted on proper NEX/E-mount adapter:



The Orion-15 wins, but the Jupiter-12 and the CV Nokton seem to be quite equal in size and the biggest lens is the Jupiter-8.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow thank you for the comparisons and suggestions!

tb_a, nice set Smile

Do you happen to have any of the following for size comparison purpose: Rokkor 50 1.4, Zenitar 50 1.7, Super-Takumar 50 1.4, Pentacon 50 1.4, Rollei 50 1.4 (those are some of my lens).

I really like the size of the Orion-15 for white and many street photos. For indoor, the Nokton 40 1.4 looks good.

EDIT: I meant, wide* and maybe* street photos.

Last edited by vanylapep on Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
7artisans 35mm F1.2 is tiny, cheap and very good, and needs no adapter.
Tom


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vanylapep wrote:
Wow thank you for the comparisons and suggestions!

tb_a, nice set Smile

Do you happen to have any of the following for size comparison purpose: Rokkor 50 1.4, Zenitar 50 1.7, Super-Takumar 50 1.4, Pentacon 50 1.4, Rollei 50 1.4 (those are some of my lens).

I really like the size of the Orion-15 for white and many street photos. For indoor, the Nokton 40 1.4 looks good.


OK, here we go....

From left to right all mounted on E-mount adapters: 1. CV Nokton 40/1.4, 2. Super-Takumar 50/1.4, 3. MD Rokkor 50/1.4 and 4. Zenitar 50/1.7. Sorry, no Pentacon and the Rollei only in F1.8 version (Apprx. the same size like the ST 50/1.4).



PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
7artisans 35mm F1.2 is tiny, cheap and very good, and needs no adapter.


This is only for APS-C, but there is a M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras which isn't very big as well.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
Oldhand wrote:
7artisans 35mm F1.2 is tiny, cheap and very good, and needs no adapter.


This is only for APS-C, but there is a M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras which isn't very big as well.


Yes, that's right.
There are plenty of examples of images from the M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras that show how good it can be.
Well worth investigating for its size and ability alone
Tom


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
vanylapep wrote:
Wow thank you for the comparisons and suggestions!

tb_a, nice set Smile

Do you happen to have any of the following for size comparison purpose: Rokkor 50 1.4, Zenitar 50 1.7, Super-Takumar 50 1.4, Pentacon 50 1.4, Rollei 50 1.4 (those are some of my lens).

I really like the size of the Orion-15 for white and many street photos. For indoor, the Nokton 40 1.4 looks good.


OK, here we go....

From left to right all mounted on E-mount adapters: 1. CV Nokton 40/1.4, 2. Super-Takumar 50/1.4, 3. MD Rokkor 50/1.4 and 4. Zenitar 50/1.7. Sorry, no Pentacon and the Rollei only in F1.8 version (Apprx. the same size like the ST 50/1.4).



WOW thank you!!! The Nokton is almost half the size!! Really good option! You are using the Leica M mount?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vanylapep wrote:
The Nokton is almost half the size!! Really good option! You are using the Leica M mount?


Yep! I don't like manual focus RF lenses in E-mount because I want to use them on Techart PRO which operates very nicely on the A7R II with full AF functionality (better than the Sony LA-EA4 for the A-mount lenses) additionally it reduces the MFD drastically if you set the MFD to minimum on the lens. Last but not least, the problem with color shift with RF wide angle lenses like on the older 24MP A7s doesn't exist on the A7R II with the new BSI-CMOS sensor. Furthermore I still have my Ricoh GXR-M and a Bessa R2 where I want to use all my RF lenses as well.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
There are plenty of examples of images from the M 35mm/F2 lens for FF sensor cameras that show how good it can be.
Well worth investigating for its size and ability alone


Indeed, looks promising. I've got the M 50/1.1 and it's not bad at all, particularly for that price. However, I've got the CV 35/1.7 which is an excellent small RF lens already; i.e. for me this new 7Artisans lens comes too late.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My favorite pancake is an old silver Industar-50 f/3.5. Mine's from 1957.

It's surprisingly sharp and it has nice bokeh. Also, I think it's the most fun manual lens I've ever tried. It's so cute you want to tousle it's hair and buy it a lollipop.

Did I mention they're cheap too?


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
My favorite pancake is an old silver Industar-50 f/3.5. Mine's from 1957.

It's surprisingly sharp and it has nice bokeh. Also, I think it's the most fun manual lens I've ever tried. It's so cute you want to tousle it's hair and buy it a lollipop.

Did I mention they're cheap too?


This is indeed a very cheap lens. My KMZ made lens is from 1967 and the "Rigid Chrome" version. A classical Tessar.

Size comparison:



PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is a nice resource available online that shows the length of many compact lenses (including adapters) when mounted on Sony A7 series cameras: http://antineutrino.net/2016/04/15/smallest-lenses-sony-a7

The 40/1.4 Nokton is indeed a tiny lens, especially considering its fast aperture but, as far as I know, the flattest pancake in Sony FE mount (i.e. including adapter) is the C/V 40/2.8 Heliar. Here it is on my Sony A7II, complete with its lens hood, first in the collapsed position:



And now fully extended, ready to shoot:



Compared with the 40/1.4 Nokton without hood (collapsed):



And extended:



Its image quality is very good for a pancake, with a beautiful Heliar rendering, well suited for portraiture, when used wide open and good sharpness when stopped down:





Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
The 40/1.4 Nokton is indeed a tiny lens, especially considering its fast aperture but, as far as I know, the flattest pancake in Sony FE mount (i.e. including adapter) is the C/V 40/2.8 Heliar.


Indeed, this lens is the smallest.

However, if you don't have the special adapter already, the lens/adapter combination is more expensive than the Nokton with normal adapter and the faster Nokton seems to be more versatile.

Another option would be the Leitz Summicron 50mm/F2 "Collapsible" which isn't bad as well:




PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
However, if you don't have the special adapter already, the lens/adapter combination is more expensive than the Nokton with normal adapter and the faster Nokton seems to be more versatile.

In fact, both lenses don't have much in common, except the focal length. But the Heliar is cheaper: approximately $430 for the lens + focusing adapter (Click here to see on Ebay) vs. $449 for the Nokton without adapter (Cameraquest prices). In fact, a close focus adapter would also be required to use the Nokton on a Sony camera, in order to mitigate the poor native close focusing ability of the lens (0.7m), thus bringing the total cost to about $480.

tb_a wrote:
Another option would be the Leitz Summicron 50mm/F2 "Collapsible" which isn't bad as well

I am not fond of the 50mm focal length on 24x36. The 40/2 Summicron/Rokkor of the Leica CL is more interesting IMHO (and smaller too) but I prefer both Cosina made 40mm lenses to the Summicron/Rokkor.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not too sure any longer if the Heliar 40mm/F2.8 is really the smallest variant when collapsed.

I've checked my inventory and found the FED 50mm/F3.5 which is shown hereafter in collapsed and retracted postition next to the Orion-15 28/6 and the Nokton 40/1.4:




Please note that the FED in collapsed position will protude into the camera; therefore actually it's even smaller when mounted and unlike the heliar, it works completely with the standard adapter.
Nonetheless I strongly recommend to use all RF lenses on a close focus helicoid adapter as the standard MFD is not as good as on comparable SLR lenses. Obviously they are available quite reasonalbe nowadays (EUR 30.-). I've paid a fortune for mine. Wink
Optically it's a decent performer and it still can be found very cheap.
I've already introduced it here: http://forum.mflenses.com/fed-50mm-f3-5-t79840.html

Cheers,


PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
I'm not too sure any longer if the Heliar 40mm/F2.8 is really the smallest variant when collapsed.

I've checked my inventory and found the FED 50mm/F3.5 which is shown hereafter in collapsed and retracted postition next to the Orion-15 28/6 and the Nokton 40/1.4: ...




Yep. I was thinking of the FED 50 3.5 too. Collapsed, I can't think of anything shallower.


Something else to think about vanylapep is how a lens affects the centre of gravity of the camera. For example, although the FED is small, it has some old school weight which is carried very close to the camera and makes the camera feel very nicely balanced in the hand. A pleasure to walk around with.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some great lenses have been mentioned already.

My favorite tiny lenses:
- Leitz Summaron 3,5cm f/3.5
- Leica Summicron-C 40mm f/2.0
Both are pretty affordable.

The Elmar 90mm f/4.0 is also very compact and cheap.

In 50mm, Jupiter 3 (f/1.5) and Jupiter 8 (f/2.0, supercheap) are pretty compact.

The Orion-15 is also a good lens, but a bit more expensive.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
I'm not too sure any longer if the Heliar 40mm/F2.8 is really the smallest variant when collapsed.

I've checked my inventory and found the FED 50mm/F3.5 which is shown hereafter in collapsed and retracted postition next to the Orion-15 28/6 and the Nokton 40/1.4:




Please note that the FED in collapsed position will protude into the camera; therefore actually it's even smaller when mounted and unlike the heliar, it works completely with the standard adapter.
Nonetheless I strongly recommend to use all RF lenses on a close focus helicoid adapter as the standard MFD is not as good as on comparable SLR lenses. Obviously they are available quite reasonalbe nowadays (EUR 30.-). I've paid a fortune for mine. Wink
Optically it's a decent performer and it still can be found very cheap.
I've already introduced it here: http://forum.mflenses.com/fed-50mm-f3-5-t79840.html

Cheers,


Like 1 Like 1 small

Very nice pancake collection.
In fact I was wondering when the FED 50/3.5 was going to show up. I use a FED 50/3.5 M42 sometimes on PK-mount DSLRs with a M42-PK mount adapter screwed on to the lens. It has a tendency to leave the adapter on the camera body.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two others that you might like to consider - both excellent lenses:
Hexanon AR 40mm f1.8 and Minolta MD 45mm f2
These can often be found cheaply as well
Tom


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Two others that you might like to consider - both excellent lenses:
Hexanon AR 40mm f1.8 and Minolta MD 45mm f2
These can often be found cheaply as well
Tom



Look also for the Minolta Rokkor-TC 2.8/45. It is a true pancake (the 2.0/45 is more of a hockey puck) half the size of the 2.0/45.
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