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Setting shutter speed on rangefinder
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Setting shutter speed on rangefinder Reply with quote

First of all, apologies for the newbie question.

I just both a Zorki 4K equipped with Jupiter 8 (total 20euros, I think that's a bargain) just to see how it works, as a cool collectible item and for the lens.

I have figured out how it works with focussing and all the knobs and et cetera, but now the most important part:

How do you know what shutter speed to use since it has no meter?
Do you need a light meter?


The original manual I found online shows a step by step walkthrough how to take and image and just says "set a required shutter speed", while next to it is a picture of smiling woman holding the camera (how can she know what shutter speeds to use in what conditions?).


Any links to useful articles and such are also welcome!


Oh, one more thing: What is the synchronization dial for? What does the synchronization mean on the camera?


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice purchase,

A light meter will be needed and the shutter speeds will be chosen in conjunction with the appropriate aperture for the light conditions at hand

The below quote is from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorki_4.

"As with other Soviet-era rangefinders, the shutter speed selector rotates when the shutter is released, and should not be changed until after the shutter has been cocked. If the shutter speed is changed without cocking the shutter first, the setting pin can be broken when the film is advanced."

All the best
Martin


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Setting shutter speed on rangefinder Reply with quote

chris_zeel wrote:
Do you need a light meter?


If you are not shooting slides you can try sunny 16.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read about the sunny 16 rule, also about a rule with f/11..


What kind of lightmeters are advised or just good enough for these rangefinders? Or are there original accessory ones?


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msteen1314 wrote:

"As with other Soviet-era rangefinders, the shutter speed selector rotates when the shutter is released, and should not be changed until after the shutter has been cocked. If the shutter speed is changed without cocking the shutter first, the setting pin can be broken when the film is advanced."

I don't think this applies to the Zorki 4. The speed selector does this on early Zenits and there's no such warning there and they're basically made from the same parts.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martinsmith99 wrote:
msteen1314 wrote:

"As with other Soviet-era rangefinders, the shutter speed selector rotates when the shutter is released, and should not be changed until after the shutter has been cocked. If the shutter speed is changed without cocking the shutter first, the setting pin can be broken when the film is advanced."

I don't think this applies to the Zorki 4. The speed selector does this on early Zenits and there's no such warning there and they're basically made from the same parts.

Nope, cock shutter first.
http://www.russianplaza.com/ZORKI4MANUAL.htm
I was lucky to get away with it, then I read something about it, just in time.
I now have a bit of tape stuck along the whole back, with red sharpie on it - "cock shutter first"


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martinsmith99 wrote:
msteen1314 wrote:

"As with other Soviet-era rangefinders, the shutter speed selector rotates when the shutter is released, and should not be changed until after the shutter has been cocked. If the shutter speed is changed without cocking the shutter first, the setting pin can be broken when the film is advanced."

I don't think this applies to the Zorki 4. The speed selector does this on early Zenits and there's no such warning there and they're basically made from the same parts.


As an owner of two Zorki-4's, I can say that it definitely does apply to Zorkithe shutter must always be cocked first. Fortunately the dial's position looks clearly out of place if the shutter is not cocked, so it's an easy reminder not to touch it.

chris_zeel wrote:
How do you know what shutter speed to use since it has no meter?
Do you need a light meter?


On black and white film there's enough exposure latitude that I've always been able to guess good enough settings, especially outdoors. Indoors is a bit trickier, but if you have a digital camera with you, you can use that as a light meter by taking a picture


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkku wrote:

As an owner of two Zorki-4's, I can say that it definitely does apply to Zorkithe shutter must always be cocked first. Fortunately the dial's position looks clearly out of place if the shutter is not cocked, so it's an easy reminder not to touch it.


While knowing that I shouldn't touch the shutter dial before cocking the shutter, I accidentally did and now the shutter dial is slightly off position.

Is there a way to realign it?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm . . . if I were in your predicament, I'd try putting the dial back where it was before I moved it. And then, when winding on the film, being very gentle as I did so.

You asked about meters. Any good handheld meter will work. These days you can pick up the Gossen Luna Pros (they're called "Lunasix" in Europe) for cheap. I've owned several and currently own two. Very accurate. Plus, you can buy attachments for them. One of the most useful is the variable spot attachment, which allows you to meter tighter areas of a scene -- 7.5 or 15 degrees worth.

The newer ones are probably more practical than the older ones because of the batteries they use. The Luna Pro F and SBC take a 9v battery. The old ones take the 1.35v mercury PX625, which these days require the use of the Wein replacement or 675 hearing aid batteries. I don't know what sort of battery the Gossen digitals use.

There are other good ones out there: Sekonic and Minolta come to mind.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Hmm . . . if I were in your predicament, I'd try putting the dial back where it was before I moved it. And then, when winding on the film, being very gentle as I did so.


You mean putting the dial back where it was, before cocking the shutter? Doing just like I did when I put it in the wrong position?
It makes sense, and if true, I'll carefully do it. (the dial is however only really slightly off)

Thanks for your advice on light meters!


PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well all there is to be said about shutter speeds has been said except:

The required shutter speed should be about 1/125th of a second but if it is a dull day then 1/30th is better. Because 1/30th is quite slow you must hold the camera steady to avoid camera shake.

What aperture to use? Well light meters are a good investment, the Luna range can be VERY expensive but you could find an old Leningrad meter, solar powered so no battery. but they can be a bit dodgy as the solar cell wears out over the years. BUT...

... I discovered this on this forum, an exposure calculator that is about 99% accurate. I use it with my manual film cameras. I'll just link you to the PDF document. Just print it , and make it it gives you all the info you need to take a well exposed photo. This is what we used before metering.

download it from here: http://www.squit.co.uk/photo/files/ExposureCalculatorMini.pdf

A tip. I printed this out then cut it out and cut out the holes, you'll know which, then laminated it. I printed, cut out and laminated the slider. It's great and sits in the back of the camera case, Good luck, That Jupiter is a great lens.

Ok so you're a newbie so some advice. When you get your photos back if they are flairy or have bright streaks, the light seals may be shot. This happens on old film cams, all is not lost they can be replaced easily and cheaply. Ask here for advice and as always you'll get plenty.

Good luck and show us your photos - good or bad!
Phil


PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Phil for the calculator link.

Question about Zorkis, Feds and other old cams : I have several Zorkis, Kievs and foldings, and none has light seals.
Did they have light seals in the past ?
Is it necessary or advised to place light seals ?

Have a nice day. Smile


PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of older cameras got by with light baffles instead of seals. Last forever and seem to work well.

For exposure with my meter free cameras I have a Weston Master II refurbished by George Milton of Quality Light Metric in Hollywood CA. It's within a 1/3 stop of my Nikon F5 meter which is good enough for me. The invercone took me a couple years to find and enables the meter to be used as an incident light meter. It's a selenium cell meter so requires no batteries. Doesn't do so well in low light situations but that's it.




Can say anything regarding the camera as I've never used one. Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Martin.

Your Weston lightmeter is like new !
Beautiful.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It cost me $16 US and $80 shipped to refurbish and will last longer than me. And the fun part is that few know what it is.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinCrabtree wrote:
It cost me $16 US and $80 shipped to refurbish and will last longer than me. And the fun part is that few know what it is.


Why the hell is he using a compass to take a photo ??? Cool Laughing


Last edited by Olivier on Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivier wrote:
Thank you Phil for the calculator link.

Question about Zorkis, Feds and other old cams : I have several Zorkis, Kievs and foldings, and none has light seals.
Did they have light seals in the past ?
Is it necessary or advised to place light seals ?

Have a nice day. Smile


Zorki-1/2/C don't have light seals. Zorki-2C has a vertical light-seal on the front side beside the selftimer. But there are some Zorki-2C where the seal is also missing. Quality wasn't so important in 1959.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Lenny.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

use digital P&S as light meter, get perfect exposure and histogram, plus digital advance copy


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never had a light meter when I started with B&W film many years ago. My first camera had only one speed and only one aperture
setting which was probably around f8 - more expensive cameras had two apertures - sunny and cloudy Smile The film speed was
equivalent to 100 or 125 and the shutter speed was about 1/60th. I don't remember having any major problems with exposure because
of the wide film latitude, as Arkku mentioned.

When I progressed to 35mm, the film boxes in those days had a rough guide to exposure settings printed inside, which was very useful.
I wish they hadn't stopped doing that.

A meter would definitely be very helpful for you if you use it correctly. However, my advice is just go ahead and experiment with a few
125 films to start with. Choose your settings for each shot using the sunny 16 rule as a guide and make a note of each one. You might
have a few disasters but you'll soon get the "feel" of it and be able to judge exposure settings yourself in normal situations without a
meter.

Good luck!


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right with Peter.
About f16 rule :
http://www.slrlounge.com/photography-essentials-the-sunny-16-rule/


About digital camera used as a light meter it doesn't work all the time as digital cameras don't always have full apertures or give manual operating.
My Samsung EX1 f1.8 this way and was quickly disappointed as apperture goes from f1.8 to f6.7 and speed goes from 16s to 1/1500s.

What I use is my smartphone (android).
I don't shoot with it, just use 2 apps :
Lightmeter Free https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dq.fotometro
and Tiny Light Meter working like a spotmeter http://tinycouch.com/tinylightmeter/


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Martin, I've never changed the light seals in a Zorki, but I have had one or two that let in the light. Sorry I havent answered this question sooner.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes of course, you need to calculate a bit for the aperture you want on the real camera.
Apertures go quadratic, time goes linear.
A calculator may be helpful indeed