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Good MF lens for reverse macro photography
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Good MF lens for reverse macro photography Reply with quote
I'm thinking about trying out reverse lens macro photography with my four thirds DSLR camera.
Obviously the four thirds lenses won't be of much use because they can't be stopped down manually.
Any recommendations for the best lens for this purpose?


PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reversing a lens onto the camera typically requires a special adapter. with a screw thread the same as the filter thread on the lens at one end and the camera mount on the other. Have you considered a) a manual focus macro lens, or b) a bellows with a specialist lens of some sort mounted on it (personally I use enlarging lenses for this.



patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Good MF lens for reverse macro photography Reply with quote
uberprutser wrote:
I'm thinking about trying out reverse lens macro photography with my four thirds DSLR camera.
Obviously the four thirds lenses won't be of much use because they can't be stopped down manually.
Any recommendations for the best lens for this purpose?


people recommend the 50, because they're fast and cheap. but I would say get a 28 or 35, because it gives you more magnifications.

but a 50 revered will get you 1:1 macro from what I heard.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm looking for at least a 1:2 magnification.
And I guess front end of the lens needs to be build solid.
Also, how about resolution, will a reversed lens be able to out resolve a 12 mega pixel four thirds sensor?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolar 50mm I saw fly eyes in 1:1 almost that is stunning.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uberprutser wrote:
I'm looking for at least a 1:2 magnification.
And I guess front end of the lens needs to be build solid.
Also, how about resolution, will a reversed lens be able to out resolve a 12 mega pixel four thirds sensor?


well, 50 reverse is 1:1 on a FF.
on your crop sensor it should be 1:2 (or 2:1 however you put it), because your sensor is only 1/2 of the FF.

I think that's how it works, I've tested it out before, but it's been a while and I don't remember too clearly the exact math.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uberprutser wrote:
I'm looking for at least a 1:2 magnification.


There are a lot of macro lenses that will give you a 1:2 ratio. Without reversing them.
Maybe you're looking for 2:1 ratio?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
clockwork247 wrote:
well, 50 reverse is 1:1 on a FF.
on your crop sensor it should be 1:2 (or 2:1 however you put it), because your sensor is only 1/2 of the FF.

I think that's how it works, I've tested it out before, but it's been a while and I don't remember too clearly the exact math.


There is no crop factor for macro, 1:1 is 1:1, no matter what the sensor size. Also, 2:1 is double life size, 1:2 is half life size. Most dedicated macro lenses either do 1:1 or 1:2, I can't think of any that go beyond 1:1.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
elliott wrote:
clockwork247 wrote:
well, 50 reverse is 1:1 on a FF.
on your crop sensor it should be 1:2 (or 2:1 however you put it), because your sensor is only 1/2 of the FF.

I think that's how it works, I've tested it out before, but it's been a while and I don't remember too clearly the exact math.


There is no crop factor for macro, 1:1 is 1:1, no matter what the sensor size. Also, 2:1 is double life size, 1:2 is half life size. Most dedicated macro lenses either do 1:1 or 1:2, I can't think of any that go beyond 1:1.


you're right my mistake. crop sensor will only crop it, no change to the magnification.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Maybe you're looking for 2:1 ratio?


You are right. Smile
1:1 I can do with my AF lens, and I want more magnification.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess almost "cheap" 50mm will do the job....I used sometimes a konika hexanon 1.8/52mm reversed and/or with macro rings on my D700 with satisfied results I think....here some samples if it can helps!:
http://forum.mflenses.com/hexanon-1-8-52mmand-macro-rings-on-d700-andpict-20-06-t50366,highlight,%2Bhexanon.html
here with reversed helios 44:
http://forum.mflenses.com/reversed-helios-h44and-extension-rings-macro-sample-on-nex-t50471,highlight,%2Breversed.html
and here with reversed voigtlander SL 2/40 (nikon mount):
http://forum.mflenses.com/first-macro-with-reversed-voigtlander-sl-2-40mm-on-d700-t50151,highlight,%2Breversed.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/macros-from-today-reversed-voigtlander-2-40-on-d700-t50181,highlight,%2Breversed.html

Wink


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you specifically want to use only one lens reversed directly on the mount of your camera? Or you could think about reversing a lens on top of some other lens (aka stacking lenses).. The adapters for both shouldn't be all that expensive... for example:

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/55mm-55-MM-Reverse-macro-adapter-for-Olympus-Four-Thirds-4-3-mount-/400062260959?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item5d2591a6df

Just google or search on ebay "macro reverse adapter or ring"

I have some experience with stacking lenses, using pentax aps-c with manual panagor 90mm macro lens and a takumar 50mm 1.4 reversed on top... gives around 2:1 magnification. To get DOF as big as possible stop down fully and I use flash. I guess when one uses just the one lens reversed directly on the body the use of flash is not necessary and I don't know how it works with DOF and aperture (but am curious to hear).


Ephemeroptera spec by margreetz, on Flickr


IMGP7418 by margreetz, on Flickr


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takumargriet, that's quite amazing macro's Shocked ......and I have took a look on your flick, I can only say WOW......


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Second macro is really stunning!

Once I've added a Konica Hexanon 40mm F1.8 in retro position to my Minolta MD Macro Rokkor 100mm F4 and got a good ~2:1 to ~5:1 macro lens.




For direct use of reversed lenses I also prefer 28 or 35mm lenses


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pich900 wrote:
takumargriet, that's quite amazing macro's Shocked ......and I have took a look on your flick, I can only say WOW......

+10 my maximum respect is yours, fantastic work!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
Second macro is really stunning!

Once I've added a Konica Hexanon 40mm F1.8 in retro position to my Minolta MD Macro Rokkor 100mm F4 and got a good ~2:1 to ~5:1 macro lens.




For direct use of reversed lenses I also prefer 28 or 35mm lenses


NIce one as well, thank you for setup picture!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like the Pancolar reversed.

But I was surprised by results with a cheap standard zoom: http://www.npss.org.sg/main/images/pdf/reverse%20lens%20-%20back%20to%20the%20old%20way.pdf


PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I still want to try this out with different lenses, zoom lenses for example Wink The only warning I want to give is that the first lens should be of decent build quality, I wouldn't stack a metal build takumar on the end of my plastic fantastic/quick shift focus modern DFA pentax lens for example.

pich900 wrote:
takumargriet, that's quite amazing macro's Shocked ......and I have took a look on your flick, I can only say WOW......

Attila wrote:
pich900 wrote:
takumargriet, that's quite amazing macro's Shocked ......and I have took a look on your flick, I can only say WOW......

+10 my maximum respect is yours, fantastic work!


Thanks! I am a little bit addicted to macro work... hope to get Uberprutser addicted too Cool


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm going to buy a 52mm reversal adapter for an old 28mm Tokina with OM mount. (Hopefully I can get the aperture working again)
Stacking lenses isn't a good option for me. They are way to long and will cast a shadow when using a flash.
And the weight of two stacked lenses will also put much strain on the lens mount.
Thanks all for the advise and examples.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uberprutser wrote:
They are way to long and will cast a shadow when using a flash.

Well, that depends on where you locate your flash/flashes.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
1:1, 1:2 and 2:1 etc are confusing me, not the numbers but the magnification in the final image.

If you take a picture with a 1:1 magnification, the image is said to lifesize. Is that lifesize on the sensor/film?
Surely that's rather unimportant because you will be enlarging the image when you print it to whatever size you choose.
And you can increase the magnification even more if you crop and print to the same size.

What am I missing? Someone put me straight please.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
1:1, 1:2 and 2:1 etc are confusing me, not the numbers but the magnification in the final image.

If you take a picture with a 1:1 magnification, the image is said to lifesize. Is that lifesize on the sensor/film?
Surely that's rather unimportant because you will be enlarging the image when you print it to whatever size you choose.
And you can increase the magnification even more if you crop and print to the same size.

What am I missing? Someone put me straight please.


This article explains the ratios - http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6519974919/macro-photography-understanding-magnification

As far as cropping/blowing up etc. that's true, but having a lens taking a 1:1 picture should yield better results then blowing up a shot taken with less magnification.

One time I hooked the camera/macro bellows up to the TV and did some macro live view stuff with the kids, that was serious magnification Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uberprutser wrote:


Stacking lenses isn't a good option for me. They are way to long and will cast a shadow when using a flash.
And the weight of two stacked lenses will also put much strain on the lens mount.


I wouldn't totally agree with that comment. The two stacked lenses used in my photograph of the pen (link below) are about the same length as my Canon 15-85, but considerably lighter.

http://forum.mflenses.com/helios-55mm-reversed-mounted-on-helios-135mm-t50493.html#1238895
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