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Upgraded 5D is here...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Based on the samples that I can see here:
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/5dmark2/index.html

the new 5D seems noisier than the Nikon D700 at 6400 ISO.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Based on the samples that I can see here:
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/5dmark2/index.html

the new 5D seems noisier than the Nikon D700 at 6400 ISO.


Yes - to my eyes too, pretty good though maybe just a tad noisier than the D300 I'd say


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Comparing the specs I'd say that the D700 is a better camera than the new 5D, except in three things:

- MP size
- viewfinder size (5DII's is larger)
- mirror (5DII's is interchangeable)

On other key features, such as frames per second, autofocus (for those who use it), LCD refresh rate, shutter lag, and StN ratio, the D700 is the better camera.

What to say... the key camera features for me are 8 (listed in random order):

- sensor size (crop factor)
- image size (MP)
- performance at high ISO
- recording speed
- bit depth (for dynamic range)
- image stabilization in camera
- price
- MF lens compatibility

In a head to head, D700 wins two categories (high ISO and recording speed), 5DmkII wins also two (image size and MF lens compatibility), and there are four draws (sensor size, bit depth, IS and price).

Overall I prefer the approach of the D700, as I judge High ISO performance and writing speed, more important than image size.
However, the MF lens compatibility kills for me the option of buying it.

Interestingly, if I set up the same comparison between the 5DmkII and the 50D, I get three wins for the 50D (recording speed, price, and MF lens compatibility) and only two wins for the 5DmkII (sensor size and image size), with the rest being presumably draws.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Comparing the specs I'd say that the D700 is a better camera than the new 5D, except in three things:

- MP size
- viewfinder size (5DII's is larger)
- mirror (5DII's is interchangeable)

On other key features, such as frames per second, autofocus (for those who use it), LCD refresh rate, shutter lag, and StN ratio, the D700 is the better camera.

What to say... the key camera features for me are 8 (listed in random order):

- sensor size (crop factor)
- image size (MP)
- performance at high ISO
- recording speed
- bit depth (for dynamic range)
- image stabilization in camera
- price
- MF lens compatibility

In a head to head, D700 wins two categories (high ISO and recording speed), 5DmkII wins also two (image size and MF lens compatibility), and there are four draws (sensor size, bit depth, IS and price).

Overall I prefer the approach of the D700, as I judge High ISO performance and writing speed, more important than image size.
However, the MF lens compatibility kills for me the option of buying it.

Interestingly, if I set up the same comparison between the 5DmkII and the 50D, I get three wins for the 50D (recording speed, price, and MF lens compatibility) and only two wins for the 5DmkII (sensor size and image size), with the rest being presumably draws.


Well the last three might be achievable with K20D (Pentax) Very Happy http://forum.mflenses.com/leica-on-pentax-t10247.html now that this exists, although I don't know nobody which would have done this (and likes to do this) .


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the impression Nikon's D700 forced Canon's hand before they were really ready.


patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
HD video??? Shocked Laughing Laughing Sorry! Who wants that???


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
HD video??? Shocked Laughing Laughing Sorry! Who wants that???


More that you can imagine (at least browsing in other forums).

Some photojournalist are excited because more and more media need short videos to be put on their web pages.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't care about all the specs of the 5DII
I never shot higher than 100 Iso and no more than 1 frame every 2sec
I am bored to see perfect 100% crop of 10Mpixels
I want to see perfect 100% crop of 20Mpixels
And only Canon give me that for my lenses in FF


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 50D is new sensor technology, the 5DmkII is still old sensor technology.
THis because (according to what I read) it was not possible to make a gapless sensor for full frame because of drop of illumination in the corners of the full frame.
Now, according to Canon, the gapless sensor allows for light to enter the sensor cells with more energy, thus actually improving the signal to noise ratio of each cell.
The first images I saw of the 50D are really exciting in terms of quality.
So it's true that the 5DmkII will have 21 MP but we will have to see how they will compare in quality terms with the 15 MP of the 50D. The possibility that the 15 MP of the 50D may be better is not remote.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The mirror box of the mark II looks exactly like my current 5D.
This is not great news for me nd maybe others who want to use Contax lenses.
Many of the Contax lenses have large Aperture posts and also Baffle "fins".
These protrude into the interior walls of the mirror box on my model.
so far I've been reluctant to file the lenses as I still use them on the film cameras.
It's a shame really. The 2.8/180 2.8/60MP and my newest 1.4/85 have never been mounted on the 5D.
I have been waiting to see what would happen with the mark II.
Now that it is here it's time to decide about filing the lenses I guess Rolling Eyes
Shaving the mirror I am not as reluctant about as filing the lenses.
This is not a mirror issue alone Mad

5D M II mount view


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sunshine wrote:
The mirror box of the mark II looks exactly like my current 5D

if this 5DII is so bad, I will put 2000 euros in film and make 18000 pics Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
sunshine wrote:
The mirror box of the mark II looks exactly like my current 5D

if this 5DII is so bad, I will put 2000 euros in film and make 18000 pics



I don't think it is bad it really looks good actually.
The shame is for me ( and others as well) is deciding how I will treat my lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes mirror is not changed, this is one of the first things I checked Wink
Anyway after shaving mirror I can mount all my Contax lenses.
The only lenses that still give me problems are those that protrude deeper with the last element, such as the Tessar 2.8/50 aluminium.

The problem is, should I buy this new 5D, I would not shave the mirror before the warranty expires.
It would be a big limitation for manual lenses.
With a 50D I could mount nearly everything and get an image that although not 21 MP, will still be larger than my current 5D, so I would say more than adequate. And if I need a wide lens I can still use the old 5D or a film camera.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio
If you look at the photo above. There is a plastic section with two screws and the lens electronic contacts.
The baffle "fins" from the lenses I listed as well as others hit that plastic and keep the lenses from mounting.
Does your 5D look like this one in that area?
I understand that there is some variation in the designs of the 5D production from start to finish.
Mine is from a late run. Maybe I can find an earlier version that does not block the use of these lenses.
Probably I should just file the baffles and pins.
It would be a shame to do on these lenses.
For example the 180 sonnar I have is a german MM model.
I'm torn now. Not that I was going to buy the new model immediately. But now seeing that My problem will persist with it as well as the old one the lens will be the thing that can change or not

Confused Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will shave the mirror after coming back from trips we planed,
for almost every Prakticars will hit the mirror if I could mount them.
And some M42-lens are the same, that is shame. I still need to complete
example shots from Prakticar lenses.

Back to the 5DMkII, it probably a good camera I think. But as a new camera
it may not sell or appeal to many after seeing all those forum discussions.
Of course HTDV video is nice, but you remember when you used to watch
your friend's 8mm movies? Very Happy

Movie mode wont attract me at all, YMMV. I bought 5D only because you
can mount many other brand lenses except Minolta and Nikon's. I have
only two old EF-mount lenses. Embarassed

This is where I stand, so don't take my opinion seriously. Razz


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Andy,
I don't know, my 5D looks the same as in the photo, yet I can mount all the Contax lenses (I mean, you know it, you have seen pics taken with all my lenses I guess).
I have no idea why this difference.
But the idea of skipping this upgrade turn on the FF and getting a 50D and perhaps a Distagon 21 with the same total money, is strong.
A few advantages:

- new model (let's call it 5DmkIII) will be probably more balanced than this MkII which is a strange mix of old and new, advanced and not advanced. MkIII will be probably all new (and maybe with a new different mirror). in the meantime, we keep using our 5D when we need full frame.

- with the money saved, we can get one or two super ZE or ZS lenses

- with the 50D, we get the newest technology, great high ISO performance (have you seen the samples?), large enough image size, and we will mount each one and all lenses without problems.
Need a wider lens for a task? we either use the old 5D or a film camera.

I have pretty much made up my mind, unless the next days reveal the 5DmkII to be so much better than the 50D image quality wise. But I really don't think it's so likely to happen. Look at this page:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos50d/eos50d_sample-e.html
and enlarge the first two images (the portrait and the landscape)
the images are really brilliant and dynamic!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with Orio about this new 5D's IQ till they show us better ones.
Although I have no intention to buy EOS dSLR anymore, a good camera
is a good camera but this time it is a bit short of our expectation. Confused

Andy, my 5D looks exactly like Mrak 2 mount in your post, see


Arrow marks are scratched area I made, mostly by mounting C/Y lens
whose aperture protective ridge(?) did it, you know what. In order to avoid
mirror hitting problem, I concluded that I need to shave my mirror 3mm
for Prakticars and a few M42 lenses, possibly for some others.
It may result vignetting view of bottom in the finder, but it wont vignette
the image. Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is the problem I'm having Koji.
Now imagine those marks 2MM deep and you will imagine what would happen If I mount the 2.8/180 Sonnar.

Oh well I think I should not be hung up on it. I'll just use my 40D for those lenses. The 5D is likely to have the HFT 1.4/35 on it for the foreseeable future or until I sell it.
My Brain is burning hot for RF shooting right now anyways Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It sounds very very strange to me that you can not mount the Sonnar 180.
I never had a problem with mine. I wonder what is the difference Confused


PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm certain it is the Baffle fin.
On this lens it is larger than all of my others and quite burly as well.
I'll post a couple of pix later with the lenses that are the trouble makers.
It is sad though I would love to have the full frame with this lens.
Of course I always have film Wink


PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Samples http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/canoneos5dmkii_preview/


PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
High Iso shots in that gallery are impressive. Maybe not so perfect as with D3-D700 but we're talking about a 21MP sensor (that gives plenty of headroom for further software noise removal).
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