Tominon 4.5 135mm

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I picked this up with a Polaroid MP-4 shutter (Copal #1 Press without diaphragm) for a tiny sum as I wanted the shutter. Decided to stick the lens on a set of bellows and try it on my NEX.

It's a Tessar type optimised for close-up work. Seems very sharp but has quite a bit of CA. It was a dull day so the light was flat and contrastless, not applied any PP to these shots other than raw-jpeg conversion and resize for upload.

My usual distance target, f8, probably as sharp as my Schneider Componon-S 5.6/100 but has quite a lot of red CA:

f8 again, I use the little red/white poster to gauge sharpness, if I can read the text, the lens is pretty sharp:

Wide open, shorter distance, pretty sharp and the CA is pretty small:

Wide open close distance (about 4m), again pretty sharp and seems CA is absent:

Wide open, about 4m distance again, still sharp but quite a bit of CA:

Finally the obligatory flower shot to test bokeh, wide open again. Nice and smooth, I like it:

It certainly seems like a good lens and seems to shoot fine at distance so I'll try it on my Century Graphic and see how it does on 6x9 film.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Good light can change everything, look forward spring and film shoots!!

DR.JUAN · Joined: 08 Feb 2013 Posts: 661

As you know, the cloudy days are specially to make flat images, lens flare, and terrufic CA.

In your lens, the CA is well corrected.

It seems to be sharp enough and with better light, higher contrast too.

A second chance, please.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Yes, I will try again in better light. Today I will make a lens board so I can try it on 6x9 film too.

A comparison to show it is pretty sharp, this is the Tominon:

And this is my Componon-S 5.6/100:

The Componon looks slightly sharper to me, but there is little to choose i think.

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

It's a "macro-only" lens made for repro work. I guess CAs will be lower at much shorter distances.
You're lucky guy that you found this item so cheap!

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

There's lots of them on ebay, I have my eye on another because I want the shutter, if I grab it, I'll have two Tominons and can pass one along to you.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I made a lens board and mounted it on my Century Graphic, looks nice I think. I'll shoot some frames with it and see how it does.

Looking at the reflections, I see both gold and purple colours, I wonder if it's multicoated?

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I shot a sheet of Kodak Industrex MX125 with the Tominon and it looks pretty good to me, this was at f22.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Have fun, looks nice!

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Cheers, I'll give it a try with some 'proper' film soon.

kds315* · Expire: 2021-03-09

Well, that was never intended for landscape or infinity work, but for a photomacrography system, the Polaroid MP-3 and MP-4. It is from a set of lenses, 135, 105, 75, 50, 35, 17mm which were made by Tomioka for that. Can be looked up on my macro lenses site. They all have M40 thread mount, as that allowed direct shutter mounting.

That system was the cheaper competitor of the Leitz Aristophot and the later Nikon Multiphot.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

The MP-3 and MP-4 lenses are somewhat different. The MP-3 lenses were in cells mounted in shutters, the MP-4 ones are front mounted on a shutter. The shutters have the standard #1 dimensions but in the case of the MP-4 ones, they lack a diaphragm.

This 4.5/135 is a Tessar type, I read it was also sold as an enlarger lens under the Fujimoto brand.

ForenSeil · Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.

Alex H · Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 344

I used Tominon 135 for closeup photography - it is very sharp. But never tried to use it at a distance.

On the other hand, the other lens that I have that was designed for close-up applications, Apo-Skopar, is sharp at infinity too. So I am not surprised.

Alex

kds315* · Expire: 2021-03-09

Here is the handbook of that Polaroid MP-3 camera system these lenses were used with:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/polaroid_cameras/polaroid_mp-3/polaroid_mp-3.htm

Alex H · Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 344

One thing that adds to the confusion when dealing with eBay adds for Tominon lenses is that 105/4.5 Tominon was also sold with Polaroid Gel-Cam cameras fitted in Copal shutter. I've seen them incorrectly described.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Dan Fromm knows far more about this than I do, but it is my understanding that the MP-3 and MP-4 lenses are quite different. The MP-3 lenses were mounted in shutters with a pair of cells, when you changed the lens, you changed the shutter. The MP-4 lenses are in barrel and threaded with the 40mx0.75 thread of the front of a #1 shutter so when you change the lens, you don't change the shutter, making the MP-4 a more cost-effective solution.

Whether there is an optical difference between the MP-3 and MP-4 lenses I do not know, but I suspect there is as i don't see, looking at the short length of the barrel of this Tominon 4.5/135 I have how it could also be mounted as a pair of cells in a shutter, it looks too short overall.

danfromm · Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 576

Alex, most of the lenses sold for Polaroid's own gel cams (CU-5) and oscilloscope cameras (DS-34, DS-39), also for some other makers' oscilloscope cameras, e.g., Shackman 7000, are Tominons in Copal Press shutters. The interesting exception is the 17/4 Tominon, which was sold mounted in front of a Copal Press #1 for the CU-5. Interestingly, the CU-5's 17's glass is mounted in a shorter barrel that that of the MP-4 version. I've had both.

I've seen offers of CU-5 lenses in Copal Press #0 and #1 shutters, have never seen one in a #0. That proves little.

The one CU-5 lens not offered for the MP-4 is the 127/4.7 Tominon. I've had a couple. Very good lens on 2x3 at all distances, I'm not sure how well it covers 4x5. There are happy 4x5 users.

MP-3 lenses are typically Rodenstock Ysarons in Prontor Press shutters. The shutters usually have two cable release sockets. One is to open the shutter for focusing, the other for tripping the shutter. The exception is the 35/4 Eurygon, which is mounted in front of a #1 Prontor Press. The link Klaus posted figures Tominons in Copal shutters, but most of the MP-3 lenses that hit the US market for used lenses are Ysarons in Prontors.

Whether there are optical differences between Tominons in Copal for, e.g., CU-5, and Tominons in barrel for the MP-4 is an interesting question that I can't address 'cos the only CU-5 lens I've had is the 127. I've shot a 75/4.5 MP-4 Tominon at distance on 2x3, found it unusable. I've seen posts claiming that the CU-5 75/4.5 Tominon in Copal Press is a good moderate wide angle lens on 2x3. I don't know whether the happy users are less demanding than I am or have a very different lens.

On the surface, CU-5 shutters are attractive. Inexpensive, even with lenses, and apparently useful for shuttering cells from lenses in barrel. This is somewhat of an illusion, at least for the Copal Polaroid #1s I've had. Their tube lengths are 20.5 mm, not the #1 standard 20.0. And their diaphragms are limited, don't open to the #1 standard 30.0 mm.

The Polaroid MP-4 (so badged) is inexpensive and very useful for front mounting. Inexpensive because it has no diaphragm. Useful because it has an open shutter lever for focusing.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

My Shackman 7000 didn't have a Tominon, it had a pair of plastic meniscii either side of the aperture of a perfectly standard Copal Press No.0.

danfromm · Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 576

Ian, thanks for the report on your Shackman 7000.

As far as I an tell there are no really firm rules with this class of camera. They bring to mind my favorite source of small shutters, mug shot cameras. So far I've got one Prontor Press #00, three Copal Press #0, and one cock-and-shoot Copal #0 out of them. The shutters held a 75/4.5 Comparon, two 105/4.5 Comparons, and two 105/4.5 D.O.Is. I've passed on a couple with Prontor Press 00s and others with small Ilex shutters.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Yes, I was really surprised my Shackman had such a lens, maybe a budget model?

Now I'm watching ebay for shutters, seems there are plenty of scope and other cams around, I've passed on several with Alphaxes, a couple with dial set Prontor Press, missed out on a couple more shackman 7000s with Copal press 0s, there have been plenty for sale, I'm just being very picky, I need a 00 for my Componon-S 5.6/100 which currently resides in a nice Prontor-S but it has no cable socket or T setting and I need to rescale the aperture as it originally held a 2.9/75, I'd like a compur for it, and thought I had one with a Kodak Anastigmat 4.5/124 in it, but it seems the rear is non standard as the front Componon cell fits the front but the rear cell is slightly too big for the rear.

danfromm · Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 576

Ian, could you have made a small typo? I ask because you say your Componon-S' cells go in a #00 (Compur standard) shutter. Schneider's documentation says #0 and IIRC the 100/5.6 Componon-S I used to have had cells that went in a #0.

Run away from US-made shutters. Unless, that is, you need a big shutter for front-mounting or want to reshutter a US-made lens. Each US maker had its own standard, no two agreed, and none agreed fully with the European Compur/Prontor standard.

Re front mounting, just now I have the cosmic front mounting blues. Cobbled together a camera with which to shoot 6x12. It needed a bag bellows, I made one. It will focus all of my lenses that will cover the format, and on flat boards, to infinity except my 60/14 Perigraphe, which is stuffed into the front of an Ilex #3. The Ilex is too thick. So is an Alphax #3. A smaller shutter won't work for many reasons. And neither #3 will fit a recessed 2x3 Cambo board.

I like having all of my lenses on 2x3 Graphic boards; making a camera for 6x12 with a small 2x3 Cambo standard with an adapter that accepts 2x3 Graphic boards in front and a larger 4x5 standard at the rear preserves that. If the 60/14 will make infinity on a 4x5 Cambo with recessed board I'll be tempted to give up the more elegant hybrid, though.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Hi Dan

I think I'm right. I only have one 0 shutter, a Copal Press, came from a Shackman 7000 and I don't have a lens to fit it, the Componon-S 5.6/100 cells are one size smaller.

The Componon is in a Prontor-S from a Balda 6x6 folder that originally housed a Baltar 2.9/75, I thought this size was 00, it is the size you commonly find on 6x9 folders such as my Voigtlander Bessas and Franka Rolfix.

Here's some pics:

This pic shows most of my lenses for my Century, the Componon and the Kodak Anastigmat in Compur bottom right are both the same size shutter, which I took to be size 00, the Angulon top left is in a smaller size, as you find on 35mm folders and some 6x6 too, this is the size that the cells from my Componon 5.6/80 fits. The Seikosha and the Linhof marked Compur the Mamiya and Xenar lenses are in are larger thread size than the '00' I think, but not had the cells out to check if they are the same size as my Copal Press 0.

That 6x12 sounds like a very interesting project, would love to see some pics of the contraption, might give me some useful ideas.

danfromm · Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 576

See http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?45775-Show-us-your-home-made-camera/page49

A Compur/Prontor #00's tube is threaded M22.5x0.5 at both ends.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

That means the Prontor-S the Componon is in is a standard #00. The Compur the Kodak Anastigmat is in is a non-Standard #00 as the front thread is standard and the rear one is slightly smaller.