Tele Tokina 4.5/200mm Tokyo Koki

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

I have just received this lens in the mail....I bought it awhile ago so forgot all about it Smile

It came by relay from a family member.My P&S Digital has just decided to run out of batteries Evil or Very Mad

so pictures will follow.
It is a SR mount( silver ) and is a preset lens, with a silver ring between the 2 aperture rings near the front it has a hood that is detachable.I can remove the silver mount but I can not fit another mount to it Confused

even when I remove the inner ring of a screw mount T mount adapter.
I know photos will make it easier to understand(they will come) does this sound like a fixed mount or is there something I am not doing? When I remove the silver SR mount there is underneath a black ring that is sitting around the end of the lens....could it be the inner ring of the silver mount stuck onto the end?Should I try and loosen it,It won't budge with just hand pressure....and I don't want to force anything.
I am hoping it is a T mount as I have been after a good 200mm for awhile...and with the K200d coming it would so sweet to try them out together.. Laughing

#1

#2

#3 The mount

#4

#5 Is this black ring removable? (not the tri pod ring)

#6

Thanks for your thoughts!

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Yes classic Tokina preset series. Very nice lens, mine certainly competes with my Takumar 200mm

I am of two minds here.

1. The inner ring certainly looks like its screwed into the threaded tube just like a T-mount inner ring would be. The outer Minolta mount ring also looks just like a T-mount also.

2. However, the inner ring profile is flat, not indented or cone-shaped like the usual T mount inner rings. T-mounts were designed so that the three setscrews could be loosened to rotate the lens until the alignment matched the camera. On this one the alignment is pretty much fixed, the setscrews are meant to go in the holes in the inner ring and nowhere else.

From the pictures, I don't see how that inner ring can be held on other than screwed on to the threaded tube. Maybe you need to apply more force.

If it is a fixed mount, you could try dismantling an M42 T-mount removing the inner ring, and slipping the outer ring over the end.

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

No, a T-mount is a T-mount, its meant to screw on to a 42mm x .75 thread on the lens.

I take it that you have an M42 T-mount ? The thread on the lens is bigger than the T-mount thread ?

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

Yes I have a M42 (P marked) and a pentax k T mount the Minolta mount that screwed off has a thinner internal ring than the T mounts I have, by at least half.
Here is a quick photo of the adapters side by side

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

Hey that looks like the 50-something-mm mounts on my old Vemars. Not much help, just saying...

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

Any help will do at this stage....do your Vemers have M42 or K mounts??
would love to be able to use this lens Sad

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

One has "Vemar-mount" (for want of a better term) to Nikon adapter. Looks and operates just like T2-adapter, with 3 adjusting grub screws, but instead of T2 M42x0.75 threads has 50+ mm threads.

Photos fifth post in this thread: http://forum.mflenses.com/vemar-300mm-f5-5-t30481.html

I'll take more comparison photos later when there is more light Wink

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

That's it down to the same brown case! Now where can I get a M42 mount version? Have you found any? I have seen one here well at least I think it's the same type.
http://www.jimscamerasseattle.com/pescmotmo.html

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

That link shows a T2-M42 adapter; not the same.

I haven't searched for another mount adapter. I guess I should begin calling it the early preset Tokina mount adapter.

Like luisalgeria said, you could try taking your Tokina-SR apart by loosening the three grub screws, taking a T2-M42 mount apart the same way, to see if the T2-M42 outer ring will fit on the Tokina-SR inner ring.

BTW, congratulations on the K200d! Very Happy

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

I think I have 2 adapters confused there is a T mount and there is a T-2 mount?? Sorry for being dense Embarassed

I don't have a T-2 mount to play with.
If I take the centre ring out of my T mount it will fit over the mount but it will not stay.For what its worth inside the mount there is a loose ring that you can screw out of the inside of the mount end.Not sure what that does or holds in place.
Yes I would call your lens a preset Tele-Tokina Very Happy

I hope to get the K200d tomorrow.

Krisgage · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 681 Location: Singapore

Sorry not much help here but, looking at the mount, makes me wonder, why it is female plug not the male plug, as it the mount is like you going to screw a lens in instead of the other way round. It should have protruding screw threads.

#6 photo shows the retaining ring I think.

You using Pentax right ? As for me, I am an all hands on and DIY person, if I am in the same situation as you, I would found a cheap extension tube, get the mount and screw it to lens. But of course, need to determine how to get the infinity first. Just a thought.

Good luck !

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

No help here, only more questions, the bad news, more information, and some wonder.

First, my confusion as well. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong here about difference between T, T2 adapters, and T, T2 lenses.

T-mount adapters are not orientation-adjustable; no inner ring or grub screws to adjust lens orientation, while T2-mount adapters are orientation adjustable with three grub screws holding an inner ring in position. For (d)SLR cameras always use a T2-adapter, even on T-mount lens, so orientation can be adjusted.

Not sure about this either, a T2-mount lens has a pin that closes the diaphragm, exactly like M42 diaphragm pin. This may indicate there are T2-mount cameras, with diaphragm-closing mechanism. A T-mount adapter fits on a T2-mount lens because both have M42x0.75mm threads, but lens orientation cannot be adjusted.

T2-mount lens is similar to CS-mount lens; both have diaphragm pin and use M42x0.75mm thread, but CS-adapter is slightly thinner than T2-adapter. With T2-adapter on CS-mount lens, no infinity focus because of extra thickness.

Next. In your first post in this thread, photo #3 shows the inner ring of Tokina-SR adapter is removed; photo #5 shows the inner ring still screwed onto the lens.

You tried to fit outer ring of your T2-adapter onto inner ring of Tokina-SR adapter, but fit is too loose; and grub screws are not long enough to hold it either.

What would work is a third ring between the two adapter rings, with holes for longer grub screws to pass through to hold the inner ring of Tokina-SR adapter in place.

The bad news. The third would need to be custom made; longer grub screws found.

More information. Guess what? I found I also have a Tokina-SR adapter same as yours. So we know the Tokina-adapters are available for SR and NIkon. I don't if Tokina-M42 adapters exist.

I noticed those 'extra' inner threads on the Tokina-adapters too; wondering also what those are for...

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Wow! Congrats! Beautiful piece!

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

As far as I know and from what I have seen and collected -

The terms "T-mount", "T2" were never officially adopted across the industry. I have seen some boxes of what must be the earliest examples of these things, 1960's , from several makers, and NONE are labelled T-anything. Period ads don't say T-anything either, they say mounts, adapters, etc.

The T and T2 names it seems came later, and were always interchangable and inconsistently used by various makers.

I have a large collection of T-mounts. Many came with the earliest T-mount lenses, the first Tamron T-mount models from @1960-62. All of them have the same inner and outer rings with the three screws. I have never seen a solid one. I even have some of what must be the "pre-T" from Tamron, which was a much smaller interchangable mount used for some of its 1950's lenses, like the Converto-Tamron 135/4.5. Even these have the same design.

Mo's problem seems to be that the earliest Tokina line did not use the T-mount standard for interchangable mounts but their own, which is a very interesting thing to know but it doesn't help her. It seems Tokina copied Tamron, but not quite, and saw the light later.

If the inner ring of this Tokina mount won't fit inside a standard T-mount outer ring, there doesn't seem to be a simple solution. \

One less-simple fix would be to take the T-mount outer ring and grind or machine (on a lathe) the interior to open it out to a diameter that will take that Tokina inner ring.

Another would be to drill out the screw holes on the T-mount outer ring, tap them for longer and thicker screws (I have done this to make a "universal adapter), drill corresponding holes in the thread on the Tokina lens, and screw that adapter on, with a bit of packing to seal the difference in diameters, maybe epoxy. Alternately a less secure way would be to just epoxy the T-mount outer ring on the lens thread.

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

Thank you Luis you have given me some ideas...I may not be able to do it myself but may have some people I could ask about how to go about getting it done.
@ visualopsins
As I like buying adapters and things that will be my short term solution looking at any lens that comes in the silver mount and see if I can come across a M42.

Life is full of little mysteries and so apparently do lenses Laughing

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

Well Mo, there is a Tokina-M42 mount! See it on Kathmandu's 2.8/35:

http://forum.mflenses.com/recent-vemar-lenses-purchase-t31065.html

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

Thanks it is good to know they are out there Very Happy

Now the hard part to find one Rolling Eyes

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

I have one of these lenses at home in M42. It's been taken to bits though and is in a bit of a state. If I can't fix it, and the mount is of the same type, I'll flog the mount to you for a small fee to cover what the lens cost me Smile

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 4015 Location: Switzerland

Today I got a copy of the Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 4.5/200mm, albeit an older version than shown in the above postings. The lens is pretty well made, has perfectly round pre-set aperture, and is (for a "tele" construction) surprisingly long - about 16 cm! It has a M42 lens mount and came with an beautiful original "Canon Lens Mount Converter P" which allows me to use all my M42 lenses on Canon FL/FD series SLR bodies. MFD is 3.0 m / 10 ft, not exactly overwhelming.

A quick'n'dirty comparison with a Minolta MD 2.8/200mm gave surrisingly good results (landscape, 24 MP FF).

At f4.5, the lens has a sligtly reduced corner resolution, but at f8 its resolution (center and corner) is absolutely comparable to the MD-II 2.8/200mm. On top of that, the Tokyo Koki 4.5/200mm has much less CAs and in this respect is neraly as good as the Nikkor 2.8/180mm ED. Such low lateral CA / fringing is relatively commont with physically long vintage "tele" lenses, but nevertheless quite remarkable - especially since the lens has a good corner resolution as well.

Nice find, and I may do some flowers shortly (using an M42 bellows). I expect rather nice bokeh, but who knows ... maybe i'm wrong Wink

S

100% crops from the corner of 24 MP JPGs from an A7II. Left: Minolta MD-II 2.8/200mm at f8; righht: Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 4.5/200mm at f8

connloyalist · Joined: 22 Jul 2020 Posts: 345 Location: the Netherlands

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 4015 Location: Switzerland