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Question on T/T2 adapters
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Question on T/T2 adapters Reply with quote
Today I took delivery of a Lentar 200mm 4.5 in M42 mount. I am convinced that it is a Tokina preset lens. Styling wise it is very similar to my Hanimex 135/2.8 and 300/5.5. Same aluminum screw off mount.

The difference is that on the two Hanimex's the mount is 47mm (Tokina's early/propietary mount I assume?), this Lentar has a 42mm mount thread; it starts screwing onto my M42 adapter but soon gets stuck (different thread pitch). Some searching of this forum tells me that it might be a somewhat later design where Tokina adopted the standard 42mm T-mount?

Here's my question. You can buy T2 adapters, for example Novoflex has one. Would that work with this lens, or is that something slightly different again? I don't really need such an adapter since it works fine with the T mount attached to the lens and using the standard M42 mount adapter. But I would still like to know Smile

By the way, I am really liking these Tokina preset lenses. Interestingly, I own the 300mm/5.5 preset as well as the later 300mm/5.5 Tele-Auto. I am pretty sure that the tele-auto is a different design because it is shorter in length but also a good 100 grams heavier. The better performer in my tests so far: the older preset lens.

Regards, Christine


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I do not know the answer to your query but wanted to chime in on the Lentar 200mm. I have one I picked up at a local camera store a couple years back for....5 dollars. Mine is in m42. It is not that bad actually. Not as good as the SMC 200 f4 that I was using regularly at the time but certainly more than a 5 dollar lens.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Question on T/T2 adapters Reply with quote
connloyalist wrote:
Today I took delivery of a Lentar 200mm 4.5 in M42 mount. I am convinced that it is a Tokina preset lens. Styling wise it is very similar to my Hanimex 135/2.8 and 300/5.5. Same aluminum screw off mount.

The difference is that on the two Hanimex's the mount is 47mm (Tokina's early/propietary mount I assume?), this Lentar has a 42mm mount thread; it starts screwing onto my M42 adapter but soon gets stuck (different thread pitch). Some searching of this forum tells me that it might be a somewhat later design where Tokina adopted the standard 42mm T-mount?

Here's my question. You can buy T2 adapters, for example Novoflex has one. Would that work with this lens, or is that something slightly different again? I don't really need such an adapter since it works fine with the T mount attached to the lens and using the standard M42 mount adapter. But I would still like to know Smile

By the way, I am really liking these Tokina preset lenses. Interestingly, I own the 300mm/5.5 preset as well as the later 300mm/5.5 Tele-Auto. I am pretty sure that the tele-auto is a different design because it is shorter in length but also a good 100 grams heavier. The better performer in my tests so far: the older preset lens.

Regards, Christine


M42 and T-mount are two different pair of shoes: M42 is a M42 x 1 thread mount, T2 however is M42 x 0.75 so IT WILL JAM AFTER ABOUT ONE TURN!!

Don't mix those two up and btw the register of M42 (45.6mm) and T2 (55mm) are totally different!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've come across early t-mount lenses with those silver t-rings that were the standard 42mm x .75mm thread, not the faux 47mm thread. I think your lentar is one of them.
Any standard t-ring will fit (its the 47mm ones that are pretty impossible to find actually).
NOTE that M42 is 42mm x 1mm, not .75mm. In practice, depending on the tightness/accuracy of the machining, you may be able to fit M42 onto the t-mount, or t-ring onto M42 reasonably well - but normally its only a turn or two.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I know M42 and T2-mount are entirely different Smile The lens side of this mount is a T-mount, but the camera side is M42. So basically a M42 x 0.75 to M42 x 1mm adapter with additional length for the difference in flange distance.

You are correct, the M42 adapter does not go onto the T mount very far at all. The reason I tried that was because it was the quickest way I could think of to confirm that it was indeed 42mm and not something else.

The question is whether available T2 adapters (to Micro four thirds in my case) will work for this Tokina preset T mount.

I did a quick test of this 200mm Lentar today. My initial impression is that it is a very nice lens. And at about 460 grams not that heavy.

Regards, Christine


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes -- T2 to m43 adapter will work same as the T2 to M42 adapter with M42 to m43 adapter.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
connloyalist wrote:
. . .
The question is whether available T2 adapters (to Micro four thirds in my case) will work for this Tokina preset T mount . . .

T and T2 adapters are essentially the same. Except T2 adapters have three screws around their perimeter to allow rotation of the lens to achieve desired orientation. So that the aperture scale can be facing up, for example.


connloyalist wrote:
Today I took delivery of a Lentar 200mm 4.5 in M42 mount. I am convinced that it is a Tokina preset lens.

You might find some more information about your lens here:
http://forum.mflenses.com/info-on-lentar-lenses-t77685.html



connloyalist wrote:
By the way, I am really liking these Tokina preset lenses. Interestingly, I own the 300mm/5.5 preset as well as the later 300mm/5.5 Tele-Auto. I am pretty sure that the tele-auto is a different design because it is shorter in length but also a good 100 grams heavier. The better performer in my tests so far: the older preset lens.

Regards, Christine


I think these two may be the same as your 300s, Christine?

#2


#3



By the way, it's nice to see so many responses so quickly to a question here. Well done, members!
Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="55"]
connloyalist wrote:
. . .

I think these two may be the same as your 300s, Christine:

#2


#3



Yes, those are my 300's. So far I do prefer the older (top) one.

Regards, Christine


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a follow up question.

At the moment I own three Tokina preset lenses: two Hanimex's with 47mm threads and one Lentar with a 42mm T mount thread. When buying one of these lenses on eBay for example, is there a way to predict if it will have the 47 or 42mm thread?

For example, are lenses branded A more likely to be 47mm and lenses branded B more likely to be 42mm? Does it go by serial number? My Hanimex's (47mm) are H61xxx and H74xxx. The Lentar (42mm T mount) is H75xxx. Something else?

Regards, Christine


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Question on T/T2 adapters Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:

M42 and T-mount are two different pair of shoes: M42 is a M42 x 1 thread mount, T2 however is M42 x 0.75 so IT WILL JAM AFTER ABOUT ONE TURN!!

Don't mix those two up and btw the register of M42 (45.6mm) and T2 (55mm) are totally different!


While I knew the first of the above, I didn't know the second.

I think I have only used T2, away from the camera end, in otherwise M42, extensions for macro.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
connloyalist wrote:
I have a follow up question.

At the moment I own three Tokina preset lenses: two Hanimex's with 47mm threads and one Lentar with a 42mm T mount thread. When buying one of these lenses on eBay for example, is there a way to predict if it will have the 47 or 42mm thread?

For example, are lenses branded A more likely to be 47mm and lenses branded B more likely to be 42mm? Does it go by serial number? My Hanimex's (47mm) are H61xxx and H74xxx. The Lentar (42mm T mount) is H75xxx. Something else?

Regards, Christine


I've never come across M47 threads in my cataloguing of lens mounts, filter treads etc.
There is a M48x0.75 thread used for astronomy but otherwise I've not seen anything similar.

Is the 47mm measured across the MALE threads? (The ID of female threads will be less)
Can you advise which thread pitch it has? Most probably it will be the same as M42 (1mm per thread) or T2 (0.75mm per thread).


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've had several older lenses with the 47mm T2-like mount., with adapters for M42 and for Minolta MD. I think these adapters pre-date the T2 mount standard. Since nobody has ever seen a T-adapter, these 47mm and variant adapters may be the original T-mount. I don't know of a way to discern between 47mm and T2 mount lenses unless seller has measured.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
I've had several older lenses with the 47mm T2-like mount., with adapters for M42 and for Minolta MD. I think these adapters pre-date the T2 mount standard. Since nobody has ever seen a T-adapter, these 47mm and variant adapters may be the original T-mount. I don't know of a way to discern between 47mm and T2 mount lenses unless seller has measured.


Was the "original T-mount" like that used on the Tamron "Twin-Tele" 135mm f/4.5? I've got one, and the mounts, in M42 and Exacta, fit to the lens with an approximately 35mm thread (no calipers to hand).
A (later?) lens, with a similar name, aka "Converto-Tamron", was available in f/2.8 with quite a range of interchangeable 'T-400' mounts, but I only have a copy of the instructions, no actual lens to measure.
There was also the Tamron "Adapt-a-Matic" system, the pre-cursor to the Adaptall system, where the interchangeable mount is retained on the lens with an approximately 57mm screw-on collar, again with a wide range of contemporary mounts.
I've yet to meet a lens with a 47mm thread mount Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
is there a way to predict if it will have the 47 or 42mm thread?


In other dicussions of this 47mm t-mount, it's existence has been connected with Hanimex. Did hanimex ask for a proprietry version of the t-mount? Or was it a case of different brands/manufacturers doing similar but slightly different things more or less contemporaneously? I don't know.
It's a good guess that certain lenses have the 47mm mount if:
- they are the typical mainly telephoto tokina 1960's presets that are known to have the mount:135mm, 200mm, 300mm, 350mm, 400mm..
- they have a silver ringed t-ring nb not all the 47mm rings are silver, and not all the silver ones are 47mm!
- they are one of the known brands: tokyo koki, hanimex, cunor, palinar, lentar et al


(this is my pic btw - i'm not purloining someone elses.)


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
. . .
Is the 47mm measured across the MALE threads?

On my lenses, yes.

DConvert wrote:
. . .
Can you advise which thread pitch it has? Most probably it will be the same as M42 (1mm per thread) or T2 (0.75mm per thread).

My thread pitch gauge indicates it's approximately .75mm.



kypfer wrote:

Was the "original T-mount" like that used on the Tamron "Twin-Tele" 135mm f/4.5?

According to this source, yes:
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/T_mount

kypfer wrote:
I've got one, and the mounts, in M42 and Exacta, fit to the lens with an approximately 35mm thread (no calipers to hand).
. . .

This thread suggests it should be 37mm:
http://forum.mflenses.com/47mm-t-thread-t37215.html


PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:11 am    Post subject: speculation Reply with quote
connloyalist wrote:
I have a follow up question.

At the moment I own three Tokina preset lenses: two Hanimex's with 47mm threads and one Lentar with a 42mm T mount thread. When buying one of these lenses on eBay for example, is there a way to predict if it will have the 47 or 42mm thread?

For example, are lenses branded A more likely to be 47mm and lenses branded B more likely to be 42mm? Does it go by serial number? My Hanimex's (47mm) are H61xxx and H74xxx. The Lentar (42mm T mount) is H75xxx. Something else?

Regards, Christine


After checking my own lenses and looking around online, I might have found a partial pattern - for at least a few of these Tokina made lenses.

Regarding the 200mm f/4.5 preset lenses with black aperture rings in front of the focus ring, I've noticed 'H3..." and "H4..." serial number lenses seem to have 47mm mounts. While "H5..." and "H6..." serials have 42mm mounts. (And connloyalist/Christine mentions having a "H75..." 42mm mount.)
Also, the 47mm lenses don't have an infrared mark on their distance scales, while the 42mm lenses do.

#1




However, my Tele Coligon 200mm f/4.5 with front aperture rings doesn't follow the pattern of the first two lenses. It has an "H4..." serial, but a 42mm mount. Although the Coligon is different because one of its aperture rings is silver instead of both being black.
Also, my Hanimex 200mm f/4.5 preset with aperture rings behind the focus ring doesn't follow the pattern of my first two lenses since it has an "H6..." serial and a 47mm mount. My Hanimex sounds the same as Christine's.

#2




Further, I have two (I believe) Tokina made 135mm f/2.8 preset lenses which follow the pattern of my first two 200s - except that both 135s have infrared markings.
Vemar "H4..." has a 47mm mount and Lentar "H6..." has a 42mm mount. But my two 135mm lenses are the only 135s I've charted. So that's not much to base a theory on...


#3


PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting. Most of those brands seem to be US import brands as I can't find them in Europe. Tokina has an interesting page on their history. Apparently the Tokina brand only exists because the company got an order from Hanimex for the 135mm 3.5 lens. In order to be allowed to export at the time they needed an Japanese brand name. The owners really wanted to have their own stand on Photokina in Cologne thus they named their brand Tokina. https://tokinalens.com/reviews/the_history_of_tokina_1950_2020/ So Hanimex is actually older than Tokina.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good information, D1N0. Thanks for the link! Like 1 small
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