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Pentax *istDS anyone?
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:45 am    Post subject: Pentax *istDS anyone? Reply with quote

Abt. 10 days I finally bought my first dSLR to use manual lenses on.

I had settled for a Pentax and had the choice of *istDS or K100D.
In the end I opted for the *istDS but still have been battling with my decision since the K100D would have IS the *ist lacks.
( K10D or K20D is not in question for costing more than I am willing to spend )

Some points in favour of the *istDS:

    It has a very bright pentaprism viewfinder as opposed to the Pentamirror on a K100D. I found manual focussing easy with it, easier that I remember that it was with the K100D Super which I had for a trial over a weekend before I got the *istDS, so my memory could trick me.
    It seems that it is not only the viewfinder which makes focusing easier, but also the focus screen. I remember having read somewhere that manual lens users had bought the *istDS's focus screen to use on their K models because of it's easier focusing ( much cheaper then the Katz eye which must be better for focusing again though, but costs much more as well )
    It measures correctly with M42 lenses, no exposure bias as with the K models must be dialed in.
    It is smaller and lighter, I like it's size and how it feels in my hand
    It supports TTL flashes, an advantage for use with manual lenses.
    and well, lastly it was cheap, for a K100D I'd have to add about 100-120 USD ( but I still could make the exchange if so I decided )


but it has not got the IS!
still I believe that I may have made the right decision, that it is quite perfect for using manual lenses.

I wonder if any other manual lens user is using a Pentax *istDS and what her/his thoughts are, specially using manual lenses and comparing to the K100D(Super)

thank you,
Andreas


Last edited by kuuan on Sat May 10, 2008 6:53 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was opting for the *ist D myself, but got the K110D (no IS on this model either). But ONLY because I was able to get a good deal from a friend. Otherwise I would have the *ist in my hands.

I don't miss the IS, and I did have it on my Minolta A-1. I found that it wasn't needed that much for the way I shoot. I'm almost always on a tripod, and when I DO shoot handheld there is always a lot of light kicking around.

The K110D underexposes with most of my M42 lenses, and I simply always give it +1 exposure compensation, and it's then right on. Interestingly, the only one that I DON'T have to compensate for is the Flektogon 25/4...I have no idea the reason.

You will LOVE your *ist..... I have heard raves about that little jewel.


PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kuuan,

I got the K100DS because the stabilizer, but at the end I've found myself almost never using it. I shot mostly still life, landscape and portraits, and as Larry says, nothing else better than a good tripod....

Jes.


PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Pentax *istDS anyone? Reply with quote

kuuan wrote:
...
but it has not got the IS!
...


If you are careful and not select the shutter speed lower (the maximum closer) than the lens focal lenght (eg.: for a 50mm=75mm - with the crop factor- shutter not less than ~1/75) than you'll have no problem.
I use IS a lot with my K100D because of my AF lens especially the Pentax-FA 80-320 "monster" Smile


PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still using my DS!
- and I had the K100D!
Yes, the IS/SR is fine for low light wihout tripod.

But with manual lenses (without A-contact like K, M or M42) the measurement is more reliable on the DS, the viewfinder much better for manual focussing!
- and handling is much better on the DS too!
I felt I could hold the DS at least 1/2-1 stop longer than with the K100D.
Had a K10D for a short time but this animal had even more probs with metering with non-A-lenses.
- and is much heavier and bigger (handgrip).

If you have big lenses for your DS:
The DICAIN-grip is useful!

Any further questions?
Feel free to ask!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to read your confirmation Paul, specially that you seem to prefer the *istDS over the K100D when using manual focus lenses!
I believe that few users have discovered this small 'jewel' that can be had for very little moeny.

Knowingly that it misses the much cherrished inbody IS of the K100D I bought the *istDS above all because:
- I liked it's size and handling that much better,
- I knew that it measures the M42 and M and K lenses better
- that it had a brighter viewfinder better for focusing manually.

I only had a K100D to check out over a weekend some time before I bought the *istDS, therefore never could compare their viewfinder directly.
Anyhow I additionally use a Pentax magnifying eyepiece with factor x1.18 on top of the *istDS's viewfinder, find MF with this set up very easy, I am VERY happy with my choice!

thank you for the tip of the DICAIN-grip.
How much does it sell for and where?
and thank you Paul for offering to answer any further question.
Can't think of any right now, but I may come back to this offer later!

thank's a lot Paul
best regards,
andreas


..............
e.g. let me give you the most recent example how well MF works on the *istDS. Samples of photos taken during a life concert, fast focusing was critical: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/sets/72157606664336319/
The first 22 pics were taken with a Soligor 180mm f3.5, the later at a very dimmly lit bar with a Takumar 50mm f1.4, some at ISO 1600, other at ISO 3200, some in S mode ( yes, used S mode on M42 lens, needed that min. exp. time to get more than just blurr )
Most shots I could not take when I liked the expression of the musician best, but only in the very moment when some moving yellow and red lights hit the artist's face. What a challenge! focusing had to be achieved very fast in the dark environs, but it could be done!
( some pics also posted at a thread abt. the Soligor
http://forum.mflenses.com/soligorkomine-180-3-5-t7998,start,15.html )


PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DS wasn't that cheap for me:
I paid over 900,- Euro then...
yes, some years ago right now.

As for the DICAIN grip:
I don't know if you will get it new anymore.
I bought it 2nd hand from another german Pentaxian who changed to the new dslr-generation.

It is not a battery-grip!
But it is good for high-format shootings: the grip has a second shutter-release for vertical operation, supporting half-pressed buttom.
The grip is not getting bigger - that's good! - but only longer.

I found some informations here:
http://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/Pentax-Zubehoer/Dicain-SG-I-Hochformatgriff-Handgriff-Vertikalgriff-fuer-Pentax-istDs-istDL-ua::543.html

Best wishes!


PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought an *ist DL which I believe is a simpler version than the DS.
Compared to my Nikon I think the DL is more clever with manual lenses:
Better focus notification and I get metering with all lenses. I need to buy a D200 to get a similar functionality.
For some reason I need to set 1 EV + when using the M42 lenses.

I think the Nikon and Pentax complete each other nicely. Sometimes I prefer the large size om the Nikon, but when I need a small camera, the DL combined with a 28 mm SMC is almost like a compact digital.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This outfit is offering the DICAIN a little cheaper:

Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sven wrote:
I just bought an *ist DL which I believe is a simpler version than the DS.


not sure about all the differences, but maybe interesting for MF lens users that the DL uses the pentamirror like the K100D,
not the pentaprism viewfinder of the *istD/DS and K10D/K20D.
Though it is said that the viewfinder of the K100D, which should be the same one as on the *istDL, is brighter than these of most competitors
the pentaprism is considered brighter, better.


Sven wrote:
Sometimes I prefer the large size om the Nikon, but when I need a small camera, the DL combined with a 28 mm SMC is almost like a compact digital.


yep, one reason I like it a lot!

Paul wrote:
The DS wasn't that cheap for me:
I paid over 900,- Euro then...
yes, some years ago right now.


now it can be had for around 200 - 250 USD

thank you for the tip on the DICAIN, thank's you Katastrofo for the link.
Actually I find vertical shooting with the *istDS easy, don't feel the need for a grip.
( unilke with me former preferred camera, the great Minolta A2, vertical shooting without grip was very difficult )

cheers,
andreas


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sven wrote:
I just bought an *ist DL which I believe is a simpler version than the DS.


They are pretty similar, but there are some differences, here's few: ist*DL has only 3 AF-points, a pentamirror viewfinder, a smaller buffer for images and no TTL-support for older flashes with out P-TTL. ist*DL has a bigger 2,5 inch LCD screen.

Sven wrote:

For some reason I need to set 1 EV + when using the M42 lenses.


Try to short circuit the contacts in the mount with aluminum foil, it should help for the problem.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also use ist*Ds daily and in even bit more than my K10d. It is my main camera with manual lenses.

I find the ist*Ds a lot more confident with manual lenses, than my K10d.
The meter is more accurate and the focusing is a lot easier with the stock screen. The small size is a big plus compared to the K10d, however the ergonomics is a lot better with the K10d and it is faster and easier to use, with it's two control wheels (not so with manual lenses).

Now I have an ebay split image- focusing screen on my ist*Ds and the focusing is even easier than with the stock screen.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

soikka wrote:
.....
The meter is more accurate and the focusing is a lot easier with the stock screen. The small size is a big plus compared to the K10d, however the ergonomics is a lot better with the K10d and it is faster and easier to use, with it's two control wheels (not so with manual lenses).

Soikka, am I right to asume that by ergonomics you refer to fast accessibility of settings but less to how the camera lies in one's hand?
..which the *istDS could better, also because of size/weight?

soikka wrote:
Now I have an ebay split image- focusing screen on my ist*Ds and the focusing is even easier than with the stock screen.

May I ask which split screen you got? and did it change how the camera meters?

and: have you tried to use the *istDS'es focus screen in your K10D?
I have read reports saying that this improoves the metering of the K10D with old manual lenses, very likely to the same level of the *istDS.

cheers,
andreas


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuuan wrote:

Soikka, am I right to asume that by ergonomics you refer to fast accessibility of settings but less to how the camera lies in one's hand?
..which the *istDS could better, also because of size/weight?


I refer to both. In my hand the smaller *istDs'es grip isn't as perfect fit as K10d, but of course this is just in my hand Smile. None of the two is bad however, don't get me wrong...

kuuan wrote:

May I ask which split screen you got? and did it change how the camera meters?


This was the one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230265259647

Helps, but if you compare the screen to ME Supers or MXs screen there is no battle... Smile

Haven't really compared the screen with the stock screen head to head, but it seems to work ok. Spot metering isn't as reliable with stop-down metering and shouldn'n be used(ok with faster lenses with A-contacts or ~wide open), but otherways it seems to work ok in my general use. For the price it is a really useful accessory.

Be careful if you're ordering a screen not to buy a screen for K100d/istDl since they don't fit your istDs.

kuuan wrote:

and: have you tried to use the *istDS'es focus screen in your K10D?
I have read reports saying that this improoves the metering of the K10D with old manual lenses, very likely to the same level of the *istDS.

cheers,
andreas


I've been reading of same kind of reports and was planning to try myself, but I haven't had the time to and have been using mainly AF-lenses with the K10d, so there hasn't really been need for a MF-screen.

-Tuukka


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soikka wrote:


Try to short circuit the contacts in the mount with aluminum foil, it should help for the problem.


I tried, and it works like a charm. I also got back the focus notification which I thought was lost for M42.
The main challenge now is to get the foil to stay in place. Sticky tape is a bit messy on a camera. Perhaps a large washer with an opening for the A - M F-stop lever on the Super Tak.
Thanks for the tip!


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sven wrote:

I tried, and it works like a charm. I also got back the focus notification which I thought was lost for M42.
The main challenge now is to get the foil to stay in place. Sticky tape is a bit messy on a camera. Perhaps a large washer with an opening for the A - M F-stop lever on the Super Tak.
Thanks for the tip!


You're welcome!

Haven't used the trick that much, since I haven't found a way for the foil to stay in place...I don't use M42-lenses that much and when I do, I just use the EV compensation Smile. But tell me if you find a usable way...

Some M42 lenses are big enough to short circuit the pins on their own, you just usually need to scratch the paint a bit... at least my S-M-C takumar 85/1.8 is..


PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andreas, I've been following your thread here, and, well:

Click here to see on Ebay

I like that it takes 4 AA batteries, too, and this model takes the CF card which I have plenty. Attila's Flek 4/20 lens should look very nice on this!

I got outbid on one of these that came with two AF lenses that I didn't want
anyway.

Bill


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katastrofo wrote:
Andreas, I've been following your thread here, and, well:

Click here to see on Ebay

I like that it takes 4 AA batteries, too, and this model takes the CF card which I have plenty. Attila's Flek 4/20 lens should look very nice on this!

I got outbid on one of these that came with two AF lenses that I didn't want
anyway.

Bill


thank you for the link Katastrofo,
but you may have misunderstood, I am not looking for a camera any more, had bought a *istDS a few months ago.
I have been posting quite a few photos taken with manual lenses in this forum, all of them had been taken on the *istDS.

cheers,
Andreas


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andreas, sorry for the misunderstanding, but I bought this camera, I know
you own the Pentax *istDS. Wink My camera will arrive this coming
Tuesday, can't wait to try it out.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katastrofo wrote:
Andreas, sorry for the misunderstanding, but I bought this camera, I know
you own the Pentax *istDS. Wink My camera will arrive this coming
Tuesday, can't wait to try it out.


Oh sorry Katastrofo, it was my misunderstanding then.

Congratulations on the *istD, a great camera.
I hope you will love it, and I hope to see some photos taken with it soon.

cheers,
Andreas


PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, Andreas, and I am looking forward to using the camera, if the
adapter from HK and a lens show up in a timely fashion! Wink

Bill