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Oray-Higon 135mm f2.8 (Ito Kogaku?)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Oray-Higon 135mm f2.8 (Ito Kogaku?) Reply with quote
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Hey guys,

I found this lens across the street today. Did a google search but it yielded me no results, except the Ito Kogaku reference. Since it was only €7.50 I took the gamble and bought it. I don't have a proper EXA adapter yet so can't test it right now but it made me curious. It doesn't look like the generic rebrand of many other 135's I've seen and have, it's also really small and light for a 135mm.
Does anyone have more details about this lens?


PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good find, I like mysterious things like this.
I suspect it’s an Itoh also.
For Itoh I don’t think there is good info at all. And I don’t recall ever seeing an auto lens, like this one, from that maker.
Of course there are plenty of unidentified Japanese lenses of the 60’s-70’s.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's even getting more mysterious as the only other picture on the internet of this lens only has one digit of a difference in the serial. This will be the only forum that can actually give me some more insight but it seems like a very rare lens, maybe in the single digits. Also did a search for the 'Oray' part which gave me no results.
Maybe someone recognizes the housing as part of another brand?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks. I ordered that one. It's in my country. I had to order some other thingy as wel because they wouldn't let me pay online under €10.

Am I right in thinking I would need this adapter to convert it to m42?
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/EXA-M42-Camera-Detachable-3-bit-Adapter-Ring-For-Exakta-Lens-to-M42-Screw-Mount/272824354631?hash=item3f85994747:g:pKUAAOSwMf1ZpIcH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That converter works, except with heavy lenses. Not mechanically robust enough IMHO, due to tiny screws passing through very thin aluminum. Should do OK for occasionally used 135mm.

I have made much more robust Exakta adapters.

Btw, you will have to remove the Exakta locking lug from the lens, but that should just unscrew. Keep it to restore back to native Exakta mount layer.

The other problem with it is infinity will be off as M42 back focus is longer by about 1mm than Exakta. If you use it on a normal M42 adapter for your camera you probably won't get infinity. That depends of course on how the lens is adjusted. Many older lenses, especially longer focal lengths, focus beyond infinity so there is some leeway. But many are exact. In that case, on a 135mm, the helical will get you to maybe 5-10 meters.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
The other problem with it is infinity will be off as M42 back focus is longer by about 1mm than Exakta. If you use it on a normal M42 adapter for your camera you probably won't get infinity. That depends of course on how the lens is adjusted. Many older lenses, especially longer focal lengths, focus beyond infinity so there is some leeway. But many are exact. In that case, on a 135mm, the helical will get you to maybe 5-10 meters.


Confirm, I had exactly this problem with these adapters and my Topcor lenses. No way to focus to infinity on M42 adapter on Pentax and Sony/Minolta DSLRs. Only usable for closer focus.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
The other problem with it is infinity will be off as M42 back focus is longer by about 1mm than Exakta. If you use it on a normal M42 adapter for your camera you probably won't get infinity. That depends of course on how the lens is adjusted. Many older lenses, especially longer focal lengths, focus beyond infinity so there is some leeway. But many are exact. In that case, on a 135mm, the helical will get you to maybe 5-10 meters.


Confirm, I had exactly this problem with these adapters and my Topcor lenses. No way to focus to infinity on M42 adapter on Pentax and Sony/Minolta DSLRs. Only usable for closer focus.



Some adaptors will turn to allow the correct positioning of a lens on the camera. K&F Concept do, as I've done this with them. If the turn is based on a thread, then you may be able to turn by 1mm? Just thinking out loud really.

Last edited by Sciolist on Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:01 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I probably wouldn't be using it on infinity anyway. I have enough lenses that can do that. I'll to fiddle something with a m42-male mount I have from a broken domiplan first.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Depends on the adapter I suppose.
Rotational adjustments aren't usually threaded, that I have seen.

The easiest adapters to use for infinity adjustment, oddly enough, are speedboosters/focal reducers, as they all have an adjustable optical block that has to be set for infinity for particular lenses as the effect of the focal reducer varies a bit for each lens.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sciolist wrote:
tb_a wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
The other problem with it is infinity will be off as M42 back focus is longer by about 1mm than Exakta. If you use it on a normal M42 adapter for your camera you probably won't get infinity. That depends of course on how the lens is adjusted. Many older lenses, especially longer focal lengths, focus beyond infinity so there is some leeway. But many are exact. In that case, on a 135mm, the helical will get you to maybe 5-10 meters.


Confirm, I had exactly this problem with these adapters and my Topcor lenses. No way to focus to infinity on M42 adapter on Pentax and Sony/Minolta DSLRs. Only usable for closer focus.



Some adaptors will turn to allow the correct positioning of a lens on the camera. K&F Concept do, as I've done this with them. If the turn is based on a thread, then you may be able to turn by 1mm? Just thinking out loud really.


I simply bought a Sony A7R II and a cheap Chinese Exakta to NEX adapter to use my Exakta and Topcon lenses on FF as well. Problem solved. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Thanks. I ordered that one. It's in my country. I had to order some other thingy as wel because they wouldn't let me pay online under €10.

Am I right in thinking I would need this adapter to convert it to m42?
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/EXA-M42-Camera-Detachable-3-bit-Adapter-Ring-For-Exakta-Lens-to-M42-Screw-Mount/272824354631?hash=item3f85994747:g:pKUAAOSwMf1ZpIcH


Ah darn, I was thinking of getting the second one too haha since it's in my country too haha Razz, which only adds to the mystery.
€5,00 is a good price, if it's paperweight so be it.

I will be using it on a m4/3 camera both EF speedboosted and with a dummy. Plenty of m4/3 dummy adapters around with inf. However I'm wondering about the flange and EF.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ichidomo wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Thanks. I ordered that one. It's in my country. I had to order some other thingy as wel because they wouldn't let me pay online under €10.

Am I right in thinking I would need this adapter to convert it to m42?
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/EXA-M42-Camera-Detachable-3-bit-Adapter-Ring-For-Exakta-Lens-to-M42-Screw-Mount/272824354631?hash=item3f85994747:g:pKUAAOSwMf1ZpIcH


Ah darn, I was thinking of getting the second one too haha since it's in my country too haha Razz, which only adds to the mystery.
€5,00 is a good price, if it's paperweight so be it.

I will be using it on a m4/3 camera both EF speedboosted and with a dummy. Plenty of m4/3 dummy adapters around with inf. However I'm wondering about the flange and EF.


We'll be able to compare. I will be adapting it to the Pentax K-1 and could also put it on the K-5. Must be a Dutch thing this lens. Strange.

I have some K-mount lens reversal rings. Maybe I can turn those into an adapter.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've found a lens that looks a lot like it:


https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/auto-tele-lentar-135mm-8-lens-exakta-153254974

If so it is probably an exakta version of the top lens in this pic:
post: http://forum.mflenses.com/info-on-lentar-lenses-t77685.html

http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/111-lentar-auto-tele-lentar-135mm-f-2-8-22 ( it seems to have the same quite long close focussing distance of 2.5 meters.

Most likely made by Tokina.(not so exciting :p) But then Again Higon is associated with Itoh Kogaku, so who knows. There is a French company called Oray http://www.oray.fr/html/home/home.php They do projection systems, so maybe in the past they have also sold camera's and lenses...

It's coming in tomorrow together with a super-takumar 135mm F3.5 (second 4 element version).

Last edited by D1N0 on Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good find. However this one doesn't have a 55mm filter thread, I think it's around 62mm. Still no adapter so I'm hoping you'll beat me to it and show us some stills.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lentar was mostly Tokina, if not exclusively.
They did have some from Kino.
And of course maybe others too.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it a fixed mount or interchangeable? I've noticed a Coligon lens that looks like that. That Coligon lens has an interchangeable mount. In term of rarity, that lens is rare.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice glued elements on 2.8/135mm.

Some do look similar to: http://forum.mflenses.com/the-story-of-mitake-t64648,highlight,+mitake.html

PB215165 by Ed Herridge, on Flickr[/quote]


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is a 135mm 2.8 version of that:
http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/457-photax_paragon_135mm_f_2_8_22_v1



58mm filter thread. Looks like a very likely candidate. Samples don't look bad at all: http://manualfocusing.blogspot.com/2013/09/photax-paragon-135mm-f28-vintage-lens.html


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It arrived:

Oray-Higon Auto Tele 135mm 1:2..8 by The lens profile, on Flickr


Oray-Higon Auto Tele 135mm 1:2..8 by The lens profile, on Flickr

looks like it is going to mainly be a paper weight. Focussing is somehow decoupled and no aperture closing down. I wonder if it even still has an aperture. I'll have to take it apart to check. Filter thread is 58mm btw.

Edit:
Fixed focussing by tightening the screws in the focussing ring. Removed the exakta aperture arm (destroyed spring....) and could set it to manual by throwing an internal switch. Aperture will close now but is a bit slow. But it now should be a functional lens. The focus throw is very short for manual, just less than 45 degrees. But the front element can be unscrewed so you can focus a bit closer.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freelensing it with a lens reversal ring (52mm male filter thread) in the mount.


Oray Higon Balls by The lens profile, on Flickr


Oray-Higon Tele Auto 135mm F2.8 by The lens profile, on Flickr


Oray-Higon Tele Auto 135mm F2.8 by The lens profile, on Flickr


PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
that last picture looks really nice. A bit of nervous bokeh but if this is wide open it's pretty sharp! If I'm correct you mounted it reversed as a macro lens?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nope I just used a lens reversal ring in the k-mount to hold it tight against my mount without ramming the exakta bayonet in against the mirror Wink. Prefocussed the lens en focussed with my feet.

This is a 100% crop of a detail:


In bright sunlight it will probably be a different affair.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Lentar posted above is almost certainly a Tokina, also seen as Soligor.

The Photax Paragon is interesting, Photax was a UK retailer who branded a lot of lenses with 'Photax' , and I'm of the opinion that Photax selected decent lenses rather than the cheapest junk they could find to have as their branded lenses. My Super Paragon 135 / 2.8 is a Cimko and very good indeed.

The original post about the Oray-Higon 135mm f2.8 (Ito Kogaku?) - that lens has a lot of similarities to the old Mamiya Sekor lenses with that straight knurled finish to the rings, but I have seen it on old Tokina's that have been rebranded. Does the style of the focusing mark have any indication as regards manufacturer? I'm sure I have a bunch of lenses with that distinctive focusing mark, but I'm not at home to check them at the moment.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Still waiting for my adapter which is lying about somewhere at Schiphol. Meanwhile I found out it is also found in m42 as Revuenon-special
http://m42lens.com/m42-lens-database/493-revuenon-special-135mm-f-2-8-22

according to Pentaxforums it is a Mamiya-Sekor lens. https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/revuenon-special-135-f2-8.html

I doubt the two lenses shown are the same though. The Revuenon special isn't rare at all. Plenty on ebay for around 40 euro's. So it seems the rarity of this lens lies in its name ring.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Lentar, as someone said before are tokina's lenses.

The same as the mamiya TL/DTL 135 mm F/2,8

But the latter DTL and SX (Rolleinar MC too) versions of the 135 F/2,8 don't seem to be Tokina.

Who made them? Who knows?
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