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No Film To Check Camera?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
erm some of you guys are so fussy you would have turned this down, a similar example for the thread:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190315970820

I went for it, the Konica-Tamron2 adapter was worth at least a fiver, body cap £1 and so on.......and I'm sure you have worked out that I ended up a happy bunny.


It's not about being FUSSY.

I work hard for money and I dont like tossing it out the window. If you reread all my post carefully, you will see exactly what my complaint was about.

I dont like being lied to by anybody, and this guy basically told a HUGE lie.

I sell and buy on ebay and I have nearly 1000 transactions with 100% positive feedback, I want to be treated as I treat others. It's as simple as that.

If I were to bid on this sellers item there is no guarantee that I would win it at 12.99, someone else may become interested once I placed the initial bid.

So lets do the math:

I win camera for about 20.00 with shipping. That sounds fair. The camera isnt worth more than 30.00 - 40.00 USD, so I save 10.00 - 20.00, GREAT! Camera arrives and shutter and meter dont work! Repair's cost over 100.00 ! DAMN, thats 120.00 USD on this stupid old Fujica that is worth no more than 30.00 USD. If i decide not to do the repairs then I'm out 20.00 USD, which I could have used buying from a honest seller.

I dont think thats smart bidding. Thats nothing but gambling. If you like to gamble, fine, I just dont toss my money around like that.

This thread is about "Not having film to test the camera", not about selling items "as is" or "untested".

It's all about his reasoning why he didnt check the camera.

Last edited by spiralcity on Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
***Even if I was into Konica/Minolta cameras, I would have passed on it**

Well I'm not a collector or a pro and blowing money away on camera gear doesn't make you a better photographer, why does anybody complaining bother with Ebay then....just go into an excellent recommended shop and pay what it says on the price tag.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
***So lets do the math:

I win camera for about 20.00 with shipping. That sounds fair. The camera isnt worth more than 30.00 - 40.00 USD, so I save 10.00 - 20.00, GREAT! Camera arrives and shutter and meter dont work! Repair's cost over 100.00 ! DAMN, thats 120.00 USD on this stupid old Fujica that is worth no more than 30.00 USD. If i decide not to do the repairs then I'm out 20.00 USD, which I could have used buying from a honest seller. ****


or

from ebay prices sell the Vivitar 2000 for $10 and the lens for $10 and have the camera for nothing...as I said in my first post something should work, if nothing works then indeed the guy is a crook and even if you gamble you would lose.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
erm some of you guys are so fussy you would have turned this down, a similar example for the thread:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190315970820

I'm not sure that's true. This seller is trying to be fairly clear about the faults he's found, and is selling it as 'spares or repair'. That's half a world away from 'no battery to test' or 'no film to test' or any of a dozen other similar ruses to offload dud kit onto the unsuspecting, which is the sort of thing that irks the people commenting in this thread.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
erm some of you guys are so fussy you would have turned this down, a similar example for the thread:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190315970820

I'm not sure that's true. This seller is trying to be fairly clear about the faults he's found, and is selling it as 'spares or repair'. That's half a world away from 'no battery to test' or 'no film to test' or any of a dozen other similar ruses to offload dud kit onto the unsuspecting, which is the sort of thing that irks the people commenting in this thread.


Well I was showing an example for people who can't see the wood for the trees, in both examples the extras can be useful and resold if the camera works it's a bonus. But you all know this anyway, and if a member objects "to no film to test" and wont buy on principle it's just illogical to me when we are talking about small $$$$$s.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
alex wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
erm some of you guys are so fussy you would have turned this down, a similar example for the thread:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190315970820

I'm not sure that's true. This seller is trying to be fairly clear about the faults he's found, and is selling it as 'spares or repair'. That's half a world away from 'no battery to test' or 'no film to test' or any of a dozen other similar ruses to offload dud kit onto the unsuspecting, which is the sort of thing that irks the people commenting in this thread.


Well I was showing an example for people who can't see the wood for the trees, in both examples the extras can be useful and resold if the camera works it's a bonus. But you all know this anyway, and if a member objects "to no film to test" and wont buy on principle it's just illogical to me when we are talking about small $$$$$s.


The seller in your example was HONEST about the item. As already stated, the items are being sold as SPARES!

So who cant see the wood for the trees?

Small amounts of money ADD up when you need to repair an item!
Perhaps you come from a wealthy family and 20.00 means nothing to you.

The economy is SCREWED here and we are just trying to make ends meet.

You might want to go back and reread everything from the beginning, because you completely MISSED THE POINT!

Whats illogical about not buying from a dishonest seller who has many unhappy buyers? Thats called smart bidding my friend, There are hundreds of honest sellers who actually test thier cameras before they sell them; these are the peoiple I deal with.

And yes, they list thier items at reasonable prices also.

This is a good seller with good feedback and he sold me a Richo dirt cheap. The bidding started at .99 cents. IMAGINE THAT! Only .99 cents with no reserve and this seller had the decency to ACTUALLY TEST the camera before listing it.

This is where I spent my 20.00 USD, on a seller with integrity.

I guess he was able to FIND some of that elusive film! Shocked

Click here to see on Ebay


Perhaps your one of the sellers who dont give a damn about how they treat their buyers.

Perhaps you can point me to some of your ebay auctions? I really would like to take a look.

Last edited by spiralcity on Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
***Even if I was into Konica/Minolta cameras, I would have passed on it**

Well I'm not a collector or a pro and blowing money away on camera gear doesn't make you a better photographer, why does anybody complaining bother with Ebay then....just go into an excellent recommended shop and pay what it says on the price tag.


Exactly what is your point here? Who said anything about the skills of a photographer being related to buying cameras on ebay? WTF!!! Shocked

I buy on ebay at least once a week. It's a community I use often which gives me the right to complain about sellers who give my ciommunity a bad name. The same way I would complain about neighbors messing up my neighborhood.

Your way out of line and WAY off the point of TOPIC!
What you have posted here is complete ad hominem.

It's more than obvious from your ignorant statements that your just posting to cause problems. You havent made a VALID point yet, and you twisted this thread into something that it wasnt intended to be.

Show me your ebay sales. Show me that you have some ebay savy then I may take you a bit more seriously.

I'm not going to reply to anymore of your nonsense, you already proved your ignorance.

Consider my participation in this thread OVER!


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
if a member objects "to no film to test" and wont buy on principle it's just illogical to me when we are talking about small $$$$$s.

Sure, I see what you're saying. It's a judgement call, isn't it?

When I got stung by the 'no battery to test', had I been a little more careful in scrutinising the seller's history, I'd have seen the warning signals. He wrote that it "worked last time I used it" (which should have raised a flag at the time), and a later scan of his sales showed that he sold a lot of photo kit ; he wasn't selling occasional photo items where it could be fairly said he knew little of photography. He was quite a volume seller of Yashica equipment, including other cameras in the same line which took the same battery he claimed not to have. He then tried to sell me an earlier model which he asserted did work and did have a battery. But all cameras in that line take the same battery, so the seller could have swapped out the battery to test, and he would have seen the AF230 was dead. I could be doing him an injustice, but I don't think I am. I think he did what I'd have done, swapped round a battery to test it. The difference is that I wouldn't have sold it as "worked last time I used it", which might have been strictly true, but no longer was.

Had it been someone who mostly sold porcelain dolls and teapots, it would have been easier to see it as an honest mistake through unfamiliarity ; but he knew the equipment line rather well. So, it was a judgement call, and I made the wrong call by not casting an eye over the seller's history. He knew that an electronic camera with a circuit fault would be beyond economic repair (I tried that avenue first), and there's very little in an electronic camera that can be used for 'spares or repairs'.

He did eventually take it back, "because it's Christmas" (it was), but with a surly "though I don't see why I should". However, I paid postage both ways for what I believe was his deceit.

In this case, the auction price I paid wasn't "small $$$$$s".


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
***Sure, I see what you're saying. It's a judgement call, isn't it?***

Well thank you, as you are the only one, who is willing to post, that can see some of my point.
Many times I want the extras in a sale and not the camera, but when it's just a camera body for sale that you want, then you do have to trust the seller 100%.
And it's all about recovering your losses if something goes wrong esp with a gamble:- in both ebay sales posted, there was a good chance you would have recovered your losses if the camera body didn't work.


***had I been a little more careful in scrutinising the seller's history**

Well the ebay sale that started this thread showed this guy just gets the odd camera gear now and again, and the last complaint was a camera that didn't work...erm why start a thread about a seller that's not even a camera gear dealer.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
***Perhaps your one of the sellers who dont give a damn about how they treat their buyers.

Perhaps you can point me to some of your ebay auctions? I really would like to take a look.***

I'm not a seller just a buyer for 8 years with excellent feedback of 106 and small fry as my biggest purchase was for a Canon T90 for about £60.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gentlemen, perhaps it's time to take a moment's pause ...

I think we all want eBay vendors to be fair and open, and perhaps in its early days eBay was indeed a community rather than a largely unregulated and increasingly unscrupulous marketplace. But times have changed and many of us will have been "victims" of poorly - even badly - written listings, some of which were deliberately designed to mislead.

No matter how strict our own standards I fear that we have to assume that vagueness (such as 'no film to test') has to be seen as a very bright red danger signal. I can sympathise with spiralcity's frustrations, and I hope that even though he's now distanced himself from the discussion he will see this post. But I have to say, as gently as possible, that in the country of the devious, the dishonest and the ignorant, one has to proceed with caution. Sometimes it will be necessary to look away and walk on, in order to find a better vendor.

MF Lenses is, in my limited observation, a polite and even-tempered place, and a welcome haven from some other turbulent photo-forums. It's perhaps a favourable comment on the nature of the contributors here that we should actually be getting worked up over seller ethics, rather than the trivial issues we see elsewhere.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
***I think we all want eBay vendors to be fair and open, and perhaps in its early days eBay was indeed a community rather than a largely unregulated and increasingly unscrupulous marketplace. But times have changed and many of us will have been "victims" of poorly - even badly - written listings, some of which were deliberately designed to mislead. ***

Well I too thought the posts about community and so on, were...erm let's say interesting and olde worlde..now there are many people treating ebay like the stock market in that they are not interested in the product for themselves, but like shares buy low, sell as high as possible and some gullible person with plenty of money will buy.
Ebay has certainly changed since I joined in april 2001, but after 107 wins haven't been ripped off and lost money, so there is still a decent level of honesty around still.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try this quote from a sellers description
Quote:
The glass element itself is prestine with no scratches, fungus or fog. There may be some dust inside but I can't see with my eyes.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is a Meyer Optik Orestor 135mm being sold by a South African seller described as in excellent condition, only problem is the rear element looks kind of milky and the front element a bit scratchy.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shocked Very Happy Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
xjjohnno wrote:
There is a Meyer Optik Orestor 135mm being sold by a South African seller described as in excellent condition, only problem is the rear element looks kind of milky and the front element a bit scratchy.


Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CarbonR wrote:
Film + processing is not free, it can be justified for valued cameras, but they are rare. A simple method to test speeds accuracy is to use a DSLR in manual mode with the body to test fixed to the DSLR'slens with a reverse ring, it's my method when I want to test a body without film. It does not test light leaks, but at least speeds Wink


Please explain a bit more how you can do it ?
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