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NEX FullFrame?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
peterqd wrote:
Who cares about NEX lenses? All my old SLR lenses on NEX adapters will cover FF no problem! Smile
Probably most people that have NEX cameras?

I don't understand what you mean Martin. I do have a NEX camera, and an E mount lens, but I would jump at the chance of a FF E-mount camera, even if there weren't any E mount lenses for it. That would be only a small consideration and anyway, I can still use the lens on the old camera.

I would assume Sony would do something similar to Canon (but in reverse) when Canon introduced the EF-S mount for APS-C lenses. The mount is changed slightly so that all the old FF EF lenses can be used with APS-C cameras but you physically can't mount EF-S lenses on the old FF film cameras. I think the lugs on the bayonet are fractionally longer.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tss..it seems the first FF NEX is going to be a camcorder!
FF NEX still cameras are only expected for 2013.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
my money is on the 'never gonna happen' wheel. anyone care to bet?! Laughing
tony


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
tss..it seems the first FF NEX is going to be a camcorder!
FF NEX still cameras are only expected for 2013.


Who says so, Andreas?


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com


PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
possibly Sony releases a FF mirrorless already now, but not an E mount NEX, but a 'compact' - LCD only with a fixed manually controllable f2/35mm lens:

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/rx1-front.gif
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/rx1-top.gif
( source again http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ )

later edit:
same 24 Megapixel sensor as new FF SLT A99 and priced at $2799. Like the A99 it has 14 bit RAW and ISO range from 100 up to 25.600 and IBIS. Shoots 5 fps and It makes video in AVCHD 2.0. Supposedly coming many accessories including optical and electronic viewfinders.

anyway the first compact FF digital camera! check out the size comparison to m4/3 Panasonic GX1 ( never mind the stupid heading )
http://i.imgur.com/aHaTt.jpg


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It would be very nice for us if Sony did what Leica CANNOT do and Canon/Nikon do not WANT to:
Produce a FF mirroless with very good ISO performance at a reasonable price.

This would create some very interesting competition!
Canon have been resting on their laurels far too long...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
i saw a rumour based off the new RX100 coupled with a fixed zeiss 35/2, no vf, $2700. honestly, no kdding, totally serious vaporware.
tony


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
i saw a rumour based off the new RX100 coupled with a fixed zeiss 35/2, no vf, $2700. honestly, no kdding, totally serious vaporware.
tony

That would be pretty much useless


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yup, except in what it portends for the future, which is hopefully a more rapid development of FF mirrorless cams...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
It would be very nice for us if Sony did what Leica CANNOT do and Canon/Nikon do not WANT to:
Produce a FF mirroless with very good ISO performance at a reasonable price.

This would create some very interesting competition!
Canon have been resting on their laurels far too long...


I believe that there will a digital FF for less than 1500 at least within the next 2 years. Actually, hypothetically..:

rbelyell wrote:
i saw a rumour based off the new RX100 coupled with a fixed zeiss 35/2, no vf, $2700. honestly, no kdding, totally serious vaporware.
tony


Tony a Zeiss f2/35mm lens alone costs over 1000 usd, and after a few months the price of this camera will be less than 2500, one even 'could' argue that this is a good price for a digital FF. ( A plaything for those who can afford it, certainly too costly for me. )

It's IQ certainly will be very, very good and it proves that a digital FF can be just as small as a 35mm film rangefinder used to be. It's just a beginning.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well, i know its very subjective, and im sure many will be excited, but i am only excited about what this means for the future and other manufactureres moving the concept of mirrorless FF forward. personally, i have not been impressed at all by the other 'zeiss' sony lenses that are out there now. again personally, i cant take a camera without a vf seriously. lastly at this price point i find this particular camera about as interesting for me as an m9--there may be something there, but its not nearly enough for the money theyre asking.

again, i dont mean to insult anyone for whom this particular camera is THE answer. for them, thats great and i'm happy for them. for the 99%, it is almost a non event. im really interested in where it goes from here, if this finally lights a fire under the 'big boys' and what the answer will be from fuji, ricoh, pentax and olympus.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
..again personally, i cant take a camera without a vf seriously.


me too. Be mentioned that there will be both optional optical and electronic VF available, one also could use a ( cheap ) 3rd party optical VF.

yes, curious about the answer of the other manufacturers! Though I would not be surprised if it was Sony again who gives us a more affordable variant. They are getting more and more experienced doing mirrorless, have great sensors and EVF technology ( the one in the new Fuji X-E1 is a Sony, the same as in the new NEX6 and A99 FF SLT )


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
It would be very nice for us if Sony did what Leica CANNOT do and Canon/Nikon do not WANT to:
Produce a FF mirroless with very good ISO performance at a reasonable price.

This would create some very interesting competition!
Canon have been resting on their laurels far too long...

+1 it would be a dream machine to most of us. I will be happy to replace my NEX-3 to a used and less expensive NEX-7 too.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cameras in the digital age are electronic devices which means a giant electronics company like Sony will have a large advantage over a smaller company without much of a background in electronics.

Therefore, I think it's logical to assume Sony will be the ones leading the way and Canon will be struggling to keep up. It already looks like Canon are falling behind, their latest prosumer SLR is 18mp and have very little improvement/innovation over the previous model, whereas Sony have the ALT-A65 at 24mp and containing many new features.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cameras in the digital age are electronic devices which means a giant electronics company like Sony will have a large advantage over a smaller company without much of a background in electronics.

Therefore, I think it's logical to assume Sony will be the ones leading the way and Canon will be struggling to keep up. It already looks like Canon are falling behind, their latest prosumer SLR is 18mp and have very little improvement/innovation over the previous model, whereas Sony have the ALT-A65 at 24mp and containing many new features.

Well Canon had a background in electronics (printers, camcorders, scanners etc).
This is why it got ahead of Nikon in the early 2000's

But a camera also needs lenses


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sony for Photokina brings of mirrorless an update of NEX5N, the 5R, and a somewhat "downgraded" NEX7, the NEX6 ( though it has a new, said to be better EVF ).
That alone would taste sour, there also must be a new mirrorless "on top" of the NEX7.
So they give us this first FF mirrorless ( besides Leica M9. ) Looks a bit like testing the waters, like Fuji did with X100.
Expecting more now imo would be stretching it, we have to be a bit more patient Wink
Nice for some who have enough money to play, others are teased, how will the next NEX top model be like?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cameras in the digital age are electronic devices which means a giant electronics company like Sony will have a large advantage over a smaller company without much of a background in electronics.

Therefore, I think it's logical to assume Sony will be the ones leading the way and Canon will be struggling to keep up. It already looks like Canon are falling behind, their latest prosumer SLR is 18mp and have very little improvement/innovation over the previous model, whereas Sony have the ALT-A65 at 24mp and containing many new features.

Well Canon had a background in electronics (printers, camcorders, scanners etc).
This is why it got ahead of Nikon in the early 2000's

But a camera also needs lenses


Sure, but Canon don't have a background in chip manufacture, whereas Sony do, sensors and the processors are complex ICs and cost a lot to develop, which is an advantage to Sony, being the bigger corporation with existing IC development and fabrication facilities.

Samsung have a huge IC manufacture setup, if they decide to invest in developing new sensors that would be a serious challenge to Sony too and good for all of us, competition is a good thing for the consumer, at the moment Sony sensors go into lots of cameras, but if Samsung decide to challenge them, it only means more choice for us and probably more rapid improvements in the sensors.

Sony bought Konica/Minolta so gained all the optical expertise they needed, and they have the partnership with Carl Zeiss too.

I see it going the same way as the computing industry - at one time, several different companies made their own CPUs - DEC had the Alpha, HP their own RISC chips, Apple had the PowerPC etc but in the end the industry ended up being just about AMD and Intel and everyone used processors from those two makers. Apple dropped their own CPU business and instead use their own OS and designer features in the hardware to create their own product. I expect that Nikon and Canon will probably end up like Apple - buying in sensors and other electronics from Sony, Samsung and maybe Panasonic.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
...- buying in sensors and other electronics from Sony, Samsung and maybe Panasonic.


Fuji has been making great sensors too!
( does Sigma make their Foveon? )


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

I see it going the same way as the computing industry - at one time, several different companies made their own CPUs - DEC had the Alpha, HP their own RISC chips, Apple had the PowerPC etc but in the end the industry ended up being just about AMD and Intel and everyone used processors from those two makers. Apple dropped their own CPU business and instead use their own OS and designer features in the hardware to create their own product.

PowerPC processors were made by IBM (I think).
BUT
Recently Apple has started to produce its really OWN processors, designed for the iPhone/iPad...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I've just purchased one of these for an Oracle system at work with neither AMD or Intel inside Wink Laughing

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/servers/sparc-enterprise/m-series/m4000/Features/index.html

My view is that the new Sony RX1 will probably be fabulous, and out of many people's price range. But as others have alluded to, it may be the technology test that leads to a full frame mirrorless system. And that WILL be interesting, whatever the price! Cool


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Canon don't have a background in chip manufacture


Canon designs and produces (and even sells to third parties) their own CMOS sensors since at least 10 years.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Canon don't have a background in chip manufacture


Canon designs and produces (and even sells to third parties) their own CMOS sensors since at least 10 years.

Sure, however I feel that they are not clearly ahead any more, as they used to be during 2000-2008.
5D Mark 3 was a disappointment for me.
Better video only.
OK, my NEX-5N has much better video than 5d Mk 2, too.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
My view is that the new Sony RX1 will probably be fabulous, and out of many people's price range. But as others have alluded to, it may be the technology test that leads to a full frame mirrorless system. And that WILL be interesting, whatever the price! Cool
Arrow

hey graham

i know you havent used an x100 so this may be hard to answer, but how much better CAN the sony be when it will be bigger, without ovf/evf and costs three times as much? keeping in mind that the x100 produces wonderful, printable output up to and including iso3200...like the conversation we often have here respecting ridiculously priced lenses compared to excellent lenses at fraction of price, isnt there a point when the price differential makes it difficult for the 99% to buy into incremental IQ increase?
tony


PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:


My view is that the new Sony RX1 will probably be fabulous, and out of many people's price range. But as others have alluded to, it may be the technology test that leads to a full frame mirrorless system. And that WILL be interesting, whatever the price! Cool


+1!
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