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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheshire, England
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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: Neg Scans supermarket vs flatbed Vs camera Vs etc... |
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philslizzy wrote:
Neg scans have interested me as I am using more film than ever before.
I have scanned the same neg in different ways. I chose a well exposed negative taken on a 1957 Fujuca 35ML with an electronic flash. The camera was focused by guesstimate and the aperture was f5.6. I have not changed anything and applied no PP apart from the camera scan which required reversing and orange mask removal.
I have provided a full image and crops from the same area of image to compare sharpness etc.
Lets see the result.
The original image, full size. This is the Asda scan:
ASDA scan:
Camera Scan
Cheapo scanner
Flatbed with the neg in the holder
the same but with the neg on the glass (emulsion side up)
lastly a scan of the 10 x15 cm silk finish print
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Thank for posting this...IMO the resolution of the Asda is very good in comparison (if not the best) and just let done by the pixel count and slight clipping of the black detail.
In my own test Asda versus an Epson V750:- the resolution was the same, so I don't use my scanner as the Asda scan is OK for posting on forums, but because an Asda scan is only 1800 X 1200 pixels it's crap for any cropping of if wanting a large print....and the annoying thing is the Fuji Frontier machine they use can go higher, and I've asked the operator if she could do this, but the girl said "the machine is set by the engineers".  Wouldn't it be great if Asda gave you a choice of a higher scan for say 50p more.
....also the Asda Fuji gear can dev and scan medium format if only.....................................................
http://craig-stephen.co.uk/2012/10/fuji-frontier-or-noritsu-film-scans/
http://www.richardphotolab.com/wordpress/category/nvsf/
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The Asda scan is clearly the worst, the resolution is much lower and the dynamic range is much less, also the colours are the least accurate. This bears out my own experience. I think the Asda scans are only useful for seeing which frames are worth re-scanning at better quality, unless the pictures are only intended to be used on Facebook or other social media where quality is a moot thing anyways.
The Frontier may be capable of much better, but in reality, we're only going to get this level of quality from Asda and no more.
Here's one example of Asda scan vs a scan from my Plustek 7600i, the difference in quality is pretty clear:
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well I don't know which is which but the first one is too bright (on my monitor) and needed adjusting in Photoshop. With my Asda they give consistent results in that they are usually too bright, maybe contrast a bit high, and annoyingly in shots that show it...over sharpened. Well I know exactly what to do and correct in Photoshop in about a 1min, but there is nothing I can do about over sharpening.
What's wrong with these Asda dev and scans adjusted for above faults in Photoshop, is it necessary to see the shadow detail in the chair, pushchair or if the dark seaweed in the scan is clipped who cares.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Ian your Plustek scan is really good. I spoke to the Asda operator and he tells me that all the settings are greyed out bearing out what Excalibur said.
I use them anyway, its good to see what the pic looks like and they do an excellent job when the neg is under exposed, better than i could.
I went to Max Spielmann and used them to see what the scan quality was like.
Never again - I never learn. EVERY single time I have had a film developed, its covered in scratches. EVERY time since the early 90's. In fact here at Birchwood they still use a machine that does APS and has 110 and 126 carriers.
Here is a scan from Jessops. The contrast is a little flat. It was taken on an Altix N with a Tessar lens.
See the scratch lines and white patch above the piano player, this is the shite that Max puts all over your negatives.
But close up its not too bad, a tad better than Asda in my opinion, with little or no sharpening but full of unwanted crap. Even my cack-handed handling of negatives can't produce this sort of rubbish.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well the only thing better than a fuji frontier and similar machines is a ...............................drum scanner and I don't think Max Spielmann used that for your shot 
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
The negs are pushed into a slot near the bottom of the machine and supplied cut in a loose bag. At least Asda puts them in sleeves. The staff at Speilmanns are great and the large print quality (from digital) is beautiful - and cheap. But the neg service is diabolical.
Going back to my original post, I think the best scan here is from the print.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| philslizzy wrote: |
The negs are pushed into a slot near the bottom of the machine and supplied cut in a loose bag. At least Asda puts them in sleeves. The staff at Speilmanns are great and the large print quality (from digital) is beautiful - and cheap. But the neg service is diabolical.
Going back to my original post, I think the best scan here is from the print. |
Flat bed scanners are very good at scanning prints and used a very old one for a while before I bought one that can do negs..this is similar to yours:- a 10cm X 14cm print (Etrs camera) scanned on the V750...... well I think the result is quite good from a small print.
BTW some guy is saying he bought Agfa Vista 400 ISO (not 200) at Poundland and checked the coding and said it's Superia 400 
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Glossy prints scan better but mine isn't bad scanned I think at 400 dpi.
I'm looking for a couple of old Kodak Photo CD's I have from the 90's. The scan quality on them was awesome.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| philslizzy wrote: |
I'm looking for a couple of old Kodak Photo CD's I have from the 90's. The scan quality on them was awesome. |
That's interesting as we film users never know how good our shots can be unless we pay out for an expensive drum scan, although my son had about 12" X 16" print done from one of my 35mm negs by a pro lab and I was amazed at the quality of the print.
Anyway I wouldn't mind this in my garage and wished the girls at Asda used the blower (in orange) more before scanning as some scans have annoying spots:-
http://tinyurl.com/google-frontier
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| Excalibur wrote: |
| BTW some guy is saying he bought Agfa Vista 400 ISO (not 200) at Poundland and checked the coding and said it's Superia 400 |
I told you it was Superia months ago, but you never listen. 
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Excalibur wrote: |
| BTW some guy is saying he bought Agfa Vista 400 ISO (not 200) at Poundland and checked the coding and said it's Superia 400 |
I told you it was Superia months ago, but you never listen. |
This is new info and not many Poundland shops are stocking it.......... it's 400 ISO and you probably mention that the 200 ISO was Superia which I don't think it is....well if it is then it could be batches that don't pass the minimum quality (or whatever) to be Superia 200...which could also apply to C200. As when you think about it do they really have three assembly lines churning out c200, Agfa Vista and Superia 200
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The edge markings on Vista Plus 200 are the same as Superia, which is what I said months ago.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| The edge markings on Vista Plus 200 are the same as Superia, which is what I said months ago. |
....but the guy is saying Agfa Vista 400 is superia 400.....NOT Agfa Vista 200, only you are saying that Agfa Vista200 is Superia 200
So the edge markings on Agfa Vista are CA24 200N, how do get Superia 200 from that info
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Look at a strip of superia side by side with a strip of vista plus, then you might figure it out....
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Look at a strip of superia side by side with a strip of vista plus, then you might figure it out.... |
Well it needs a light box...but using a torch the gobbledygook on the bottom edge is slightly different. Anyway this debate about which is which has been going on for at least 3 years and can't believe you solved it a few months ago.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Lightbox my bottom, use your monitor with a white screen displayed. My local poundland had the Vista Plus 400 in stock, only 24exp rolls, but I grabbed 20, we shall see what it is.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Lightbox my bottom, use your monitor with a white screen displayed. My local poundland had the Vista Plus 400 in stock, only 24exp rolls, but I grabbed 20, we shall see what it is. |
Look forward to that.......last week there wasn't any 400 at my Poundland shop and so annoying that I can't test it myself 
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Poundland have told me they are not getting any more Vista when this runs out. The managers in six shops told me this.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| philslizzy wrote: |
| Poundland have told me they are not getting any more Vista when this runs out. The managers in six shops told me this. |
What  did you ask them if "no more film" or "something else was being sold instead"
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Oh well, I have nearly 100 rolls of 200 and 19 rolls of 400 in the fridge. 
Shot my first roll of 400 today, will get it developed next week.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:44 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Got my last roll of Kodak Gold 100 back from Asda today.
I think this answers the question of how do supermarkets scans compare to a good scanner.
The difference in colours and dynamic range is very clear.
 
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well on my monitor they both have colour casts and the Asda scan needs adjusting, but still your scan is better although the Asda looks sharper...which is not surprising as they over sharpen.
_________________
Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:40 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| Excalibur wrote: |
| Well on my monitor they both have colour casts and the Asda scan needs adjusting, but still your scan is better although the Asda looks sharper...which is not surprising as they over sharpen. |
I think you need an eye test and a new monitor.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| Excalibur wrote: |
| Well on my monitor they both have colour casts and the Asda scan needs adjusting, but still your scan is better although the Asda looks sharper...which is not surprising as they over sharpen. |
I think you need an eye test and a new monitor. |
 On my 2nd factory calibrated Dell monitor which is one of the best cheaper models i.e. not a £700 model...your scan looks the same, so bringing up the LH shot in CS6 and selecting the grey pavement, your scan needs adjusting for less Cyan or blue.
............and what monitor do you have
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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