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Arctures
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 295
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 Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Need wide lenses advise |
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Arctures wrote:
Hi everyone.
Some time ago I have realized I am enough with AF lenses with it's poor sharpness, AF problems and so on. Now my lens collection includes only 1 AF lens I shall sell some day. I have been collected almost all focal lengths I need. But I still need two more - 85mm and 20 and less mm. 85mm lens choice is clear for me and it will be CZ Planar most of all. I can not make things clear with 20mm and less lenses. I was interested in some lenses - Zenitar 16\2.8 fisheye, Mir-20M 20\3.5 and Mir-47M 20\2.5 but I am still confused. Any advise will be greatly appreciated especially for any other great wide angle lens.
_________________
Sony A7, NEX-5n, Panasonic GH5(Oly12-40/2. , Contax Distagon T* 28/2.8, Contax Planar T* 50/1.4, Contax T* 80-200/4,
Minolta Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Minolta MC Rokkor-X PF 50/1.7, Minolta MD 50/2.0, Konica Hexanon AR 50/1.8,
Konica Hexanon 57/1.4, Rokkor-PF 55/1.7, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Auto Yashinon 50/2.0, Canon FD 50/3.5
Voigtl�nder APO Lanthar 90/3.5 M42, Topcon RE.Topcor 58/1.8, Helios-44-2 58/2.0, Canon FD 24/2.8,
Canon FD 135/2.5 SC, Auto Topcor 135/3.5, Pentax SMC 55/1.8, Minolta 35/2.8, Minolta MD 35-70/3.5 |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 4573
Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
as far as I know are the ones you mention good, other 20mm lenses would be the Flektogons, there are great OM 21mm f2 and f3.5 but they won't be cheap.
There are a Vivitar and Tokina 17mm f3.5, the same lens differently branded, which is considered very good too.
and there are some very good 20mm Nikkors, a good overview of alternatives on page 4 of this review of a 20mm Nikkor:
http://slrlensreview.com/web/nikon-slr-lenses-40/wide-angle-slr-lenses-64/681-nikon-nikkor-ud-20mm-f35-non-ai-lens-review.html?start=3
if money no concern but you want the best, maybe: Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21mm! ( Leica Elmarit-.R 2.8/19mm? )
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my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10471
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
one solution could also be stiched pano like those tobbsman make with cheap pentax lenses
http://forum.mflenses.com/wide-and-zoom-smc-a70-210-4-smc-a20-t20457.html |
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Arctures
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 295
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Arctures wrote:
Many thanks for replies. 21 Distagon looks awesome as well as C/Y version price. Zuiko is also too pricey for me. I was interested with Flektogon 20\2.8. I have heard it is sharper than f\4 version. Has anyone have Flek 20\2.8 here? Also it is interesting to compare Flek with Mir-47. As I understand there is the same optical scheme used.
_________________
Sony A7, NEX-5n, Panasonic GH5(Oly12-40/2., Contax Distagon T* 28/2.8, Contax Planar T* 50/1.4, Contax T* 80-200/4,
Minolta Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Minolta MC Rokkor-X PF 50/1.7, Minolta MD 50/2.0, Konica Hexanon AR 50/1.8,
Konica Hexanon 57/1.4, Rokkor-PF 55/1.7, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Auto Yashinon 50/2.0, Canon FD 50/3.5
Voigtl�nder APO Lanthar 90/3.5 M42, Topcon RE.Topcor 58/1.8, Helios-44-2 58/2.0, Canon FD 24/2.8,
Canon FD 135/2.5 SC, Auto Topcor 135/3.5, Pentax SMC 55/1.8, Minolta 35/2.8, Minolta MD 35-70/3.5 |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
Hi.
If your goal is the architecture jobs, I would consider the 4/20 Flektoogon.
This lens isn't expensive. Has practically "0" distortion.
Better aperture F/8 to 16.
At F/8,in 40 x 50 cm print and fucus at 2 m, you will have in focus (at 25 cm viewers) from @ 0,9 to inf.
At F/ 11, in the same situation, fucus at 1,3 m. (distance marked in the lens) from @ 0,60 to inf.
At F/16, same situation, in focus from @ 0,50 to inf.
Indoors? At F/5,6 (corners hummm) in focus at 2 m you will have in focus from @ 1 to 12 m.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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Arctures
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 295
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Arctures wrote:
Thanks, estudleon. I am more interested in wider aperture. Distortion and geometry doesn't mean much for me. Some distortion looks pretty for me. Instead that sharpness is really important point of my choice and I have heard Flek 20\2.8 is sharp enough, but haven't heard that from real lens owner especially compared to other lens.
_________________
Sony A7, NEX-5n, Panasonic GH5(Oly12-40/2., Contax Distagon T* 28/2.8, Contax Planar T* 50/1.4, Contax T* 80-200/4,
Minolta Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Minolta MC Rokkor-X PF 50/1.7, Minolta MD 50/2.0, Konica Hexanon AR 50/1.8,
Konica Hexanon 57/1.4, Rokkor-PF 55/1.7, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Auto Yashinon 50/2.0, Canon FD 50/3.5
Voigtl�nder APO Lanthar 90/3.5 M42, Topcon RE.Topcor 58/1.8, Helios-44-2 58/2.0, Canon FD 24/2.8,
Canon FD 135/2.5 SC, Auto Topcor 135/3.5, Pentax SMC 55/1.8, Minolta 35/2.8, Minolta MD 35-70/3.5 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| Arctures wrote: |
| Thanks, estudleon. I am more interested in wider aperture. Distortion and geometry doesn't mean much for me. Some distortion looks pretty for me. Instead that sharpness is really important point of my choice and I have heard Flek 20\2.8 is sharp enough, but haven't heard that from real lens owner especially compared to other lens. |
The Flek 2.8/20 is a nice lens, but If you want REAL sharpness from your wide scenes, either you are ready to fork out some 1500 Euros for a Distagon 21, or you would better save your money, take your sharpest standard lens, and learn to make stitched panoramas like Tobbsman does.
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Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 4573
Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
of the Mirs you can see samples on the flickr site of mflenses member padiej who recently had started a thread presenting his Mir 20mm f3.5, and linked his samples on fullframe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/padiej/sets/72157622194467827/
and here you can see my samples taken with the Mir 20mm f2.5 on Pentax APS-C: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/sets/72157620334141135/
for sample images you can do flickr searches, e.g. result for search 'Flektogon 20mm': http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=Flektogon+20mm&m=text
_________________
my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Arctures
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 295
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Arctures wrote:
Many thanks, kuuan
_________________
Sony A7, NEX-5n, Panasonic GH5(Oly12-40/2., Contax Distagon T* 28/2.8, Contax Planar T* 50/1.4, Contax T* 80-200/4,
Minolta Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Minolta MC Rokkor-X PF 50/1.7, Minolta MD 50/2.0, Konica Hexanon AR 50/1.8,
Konica Hexanon 57/1.4, Rokkor-PF 55/1.7, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Auto Yashinon 50/2.0, Canon FD 50/3.5
Voigtl�nder APO Lanthar 90/3.5 M42, Topcon RE.Topcor 58/1.8, Helios-44-2 58/2.0, Canon FD 24/2.8,
Canon FD 135/2.5 SC, Auto Topcor 135/3.5, Pentax SMC 55/1.8, Minolta 35/2.8, Minolta MD 35-70/3.5 |
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pirius
Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 133
Location: SoFla
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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pirius wrote:
I have MIR-20M and Oly Zuiko 21/3.5. MIR is sharper and more contrasty wide open in the center, but loses this advantage when stopped down. Corners are certainly better on Zuiko. MIR has better flare resistance because it's multi-coated and my version of Zuiko is not. Colors seem identical to me.
I also have Zenitar and Zuiko 16mm fisheye and while Zenitar is certainly a great lens, Zuiko is better in every aspect except that it is slower. |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 4573
Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
oh, and I forgot to mention. In case you want a Mir, they can be bought new, see: http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/lens-mc-mir-47m.htm
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/mir_20m_lens.htm
curiously the f2.5 costs much less than the f3.5!
disclaimer: I have no affiliation with this seller.
There are a few Russian sellers out there, I do not have personal experience but from what I remember having read elsewhere they should be ok, the only complaint being that shipping usually takes various weeks.
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my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 4573
Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
an interesting presentation of the 2.5/20 Mir incl. comparison shots with 2 modern zooms:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/74631-mir47k-versus-zooms.html
_________________
my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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DSG
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 544
Location: London, UK.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Need wide lenses advise |
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DSG wrote:
| Arctures wrote: |
Hi everyone.
Some time ago I have realized I am enough with AF lenses with it's poor sharpness, AF problems and so on. Now my lens collection includes only 1 AF lens I shall sell some day. I have been collected almost all focal lengths I need. But I still need two more - 85mm and 20 and less mm. 85mm lens choice is clear for me and it will be CZ Planar most of all. I can not make things clear with 20mm and less lenses. I was interested in some lenses - Zenitar 16\2.8 fisheye, Mir-20M 20\3.5 and Mir-47M 20\2.5 but I am still confused. Any advise will be greatly appreciated especially for any other great wide angle lens. |
If you dont mind fish-eye distortion then the Zenitar is worth a look but you will probably soon get fed up having to de-fish most of your WA shots and as de-fishing makes images less wide it would sort of defeat the object.
So I recommend you look for a wide rectalinear lens instead, but which one?
Well, first you have to decide if you can do without AF...If AF is essential to you and your using a FF DSLR then the Sigma 12-24mm EX is the widest full frame AF rectalinear lens available for most mounts, though I've heard its a tad soft.
However if your using a "DX" APSc or 4/3rds size sensor DSLR then you can take advantage of the sharper Sigma 10-20mm EX which is probably the widest rectalinear AF lens available, and a very good optical performer too.
Of course, neither is cheap, and I'm assuming you can afford them...If not, and AF is'nt essential to you then the best budget rectalinear choice would be a Tokina 17mm f3.5 or the Tamron 17mm f3.5, which may be even better than the Tokina...M42 mount would be my choice then you just the need to buy the brand related M42 adapter for your camera.
Both should outperform the Zenitar.
If you want a wider rectalinear than those two then the Sigma 14mm f3.5 is probably the only other option. I bought one in FD mount for about £85 and converted it to M42 mount. Its OK for close ups but both 17mm lenses above beat it for sharpness and contrast.  |
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