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List of CZJ M42 T-marked lenses?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: List of CZJ M42 T-marked lenses? Reply with quote
I'd like to find any list of all T-marked M42 screw-mount lenses, but I failed. Here are (at least) some of them. If anyone knows other models (or other details), please share... Smile

  1. Tessar T 40/4.5
    1. pre war "4cm" (???)
    2. post-war, manual, ALU, 10 blades [picture]

  2. Tessar T 50/3.5
    1. pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades [picture]
    2. post-war, pre-set, ALU [picture]

  3. Tessar T 50/2.8
    1. pre-set, ALU, 12 blades [picture]
    2. pre-set, ALU, 15 blades [picture] (non-T ALU version: 10 blades, last black version: 5 blades)

  4. Biotar T 58/2
    1. pre-war, manual, "5,8cm", black, 17 blades [picture]
    2. pre-war, manual, "5,8cm", ALU, 17 blades [picture]
    3. post-war, manual, ALU, 17 blades [picture]
    4. pre-set, ALU, 12 blades [picture]
    5. pre-set, ALU, 17 blades (non-T version: 10 blades)

  5. Biotar T 75/1.5
    1. pre-war "7,5cm" (???)
    2. pre-set, ALU, 10 blades

  6. Biometar T 80/2.8
    1. pre-set, ALU, 10 blades (non-T version: 10 blades)

  7. Tessar T 80/2.8 [picture]

  8. Sonnar T 135/4 (???)

  9. Triotar T 135/4 [picture]


pictures taken from:
- my archive
- ebay (member stil22)
- http://www.praktica-collector.de/
- http://forum.mflenses.com/

Last edited by no-X on Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:38 pm; edited 6 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No-X

The zeiss not be my theme. But I tell you Thanks, your post is very instructive.

Zeiss very complicate, no? Very Happy

Rino.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The marking is a bit misleading. Same looking lenses, identical name, but different number of blades... or Tessars - there is no way to find out if the zebra version has better coating than ALU T version, till you buy the lens and test it. Some sources says that the last (black) Tessar is multi-coated, but it doesn't have "MC" mark... Confused


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
....Some sources says that the last (black) Tessar is multi-coated, but it doesn't have "MC" mark... Confused


I agree with you "in totum".

I think that the black tessar isn't a MC. The tessar design is simple coated (e.g. tessar 45/2,8 Contax). I read in somewhere that the MC in the designs with few air surfaces is antieconomic.

Rino.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: List of CZJ M42 T-marked lenses? Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
I'd like to find some list of all T-marked M42 screw-mount lenses, but I failed. Here are (at least) some of them. If anyone knows other models (or other details), please share... Smile

  • Tessar T 40/4.5
    • pre war "4cm" (???)
    • post-war, manual, ALU, 10 blades

  • Tessar T 50/3.5
    • pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades
    • post-war, pre-set, ALU

  • Tessar T 50/2.8
    • pre-set, ALU, 12 blades
    • pre-set, ALU, 15 blades (non-T ALU version: 10 blades, last black version: 5 blades)

  • Biotar T 58/2
    • pre-war, manual, "5,8cm", black, 17 blades
    • post-war, manual, ALU, 17 blades
    • pre-set, ALU, 12 blades
    • pre-set, ALU, 17 blades (non-T version: 10 blades)

  • Biotar T 75/1.5
    • pre-war "7,5cm" (???)
    • pre-set, ALU, 10 blades

  • Biometar T 80/2.8
    • pre-set, ALU, 10 blades (non-T version: 10 blades)

  • Sonnar T 135/4 (???)

  • Triotar T 135/4 (???)


This is interesting list however I think that it could be modified.
1. every model suppose to have its number in the list
2. we need to attach photo of the lens to show certain model


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: List of CZJ M42 T-marked lenses? Reply with quote
voytek wrote:
This is interesting list however I think that it could be modified.
1. every model suppose to have its number in the list

Not sure if I understand completely... Do you mean it like this?
  • Tessar T 40/4.5
    1. pre war "4cm" (???)
    2. post-war, manual, ALU, 10 blades
  • Tessar T 50/3.5
    1. pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades
    2. post-war, pre-set, ALU
  • Tessar T 50/2.8
    1. pre-set, ALU, 12 blades
    2. pre-set, ALU, 15 blades (non-T ALU version: 10 blades, last black version: 5 blades)

or
  1. Tessar T 40/4.5
    1. pre war "4cm" (???)
    2. post-war, manual, ALU, 10 blades

  2. Tessar T 50/3.5
    1. pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades
    2. post-war, pre-set, ALU

  3. Tessar T 50/2.8
    1. pre-set, ALU, 12 blades
    2. pre-set, ALU, 15 blades (non-T ALU version: 10 blades, last black version: 5 blades)

or
  • Tessar T 40/4.5 pre war "4cm" (???)
  • Tessar T 40/4.5 post-war, manual, ALU, 10 blades
  • Tessar T 50/3.5
  • Tessar T 50/3.5 pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades
  • Tessar T 50/3.5 post-war, pre-set, ALU
  • Tessar T 50/2.8
  • Tessar T 50/2.8 pre-set, ALU, 12 blades
  • Tessar T 50/2.8 pre-set, ALU, 15 blades (non-T ALU version: 10 blades, last black version: 5 blades)


I can add some pictures from my HDD, but they are taken from various sites, auctions, forums (maybe even from local members), so I can only hope not to break copyright...


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carl Zeiss Jena Fernobjektiv 500mm f8
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 18cm f2.8
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180mm f2.8
Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar 80mm f2.8 , M42, Exakta

I think from every edition from alu, and before T is available


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-x
Quote:
1. Tessar T 40/4.5
1. pre war "4cm" (???)
2. post-war, manual, ALU, 10 blades

2. Tessar T 50/3.5
1. pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades
2. post-war, pre-set, ALU

3. Tessar T 50/2.8
1. pre-set, ALU, 12 blades
2. pre-set, ALU, 15 blades (non-T ALU version: 10 blades, last black version: 5 blades)


Above I like most but maybe somebody else has better proposition. I can send you some pictures if you don't mind or make pictures following your suggestions.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok, added numbers and some pictures.

If you (or anybody else) have pictures of any version, where is it missing, I can append it.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have 2 Triotars 135 and chrome Biotar 2/5.8cm, 2 Tessars 4.5/40, others - how do you like ta take pictures?


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's upon you. I like visible lettering + barrel shape... e.g.:



OR



PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Guys, it is all there already,why don't you get that book on Zeiss lenses and you have it all in detail...

oh, I see, it costs something...


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Because team-work has its magic? Smile

Yes, it costs something. I can buy three books or three very good manual lenses for this price (which I could resale for higher price, if I'll be short of money). But anyway - it's more complicated to buy these books for me, because they are not available in local market and in case of foreign purchase - it can't be payed via PAYPAL Confused


PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Guys, it is all there already,why don't you get that book on Zeiss lenses and you have it all in detail...

oh, I see, it costs something...


A book do less for make these lenses to popular , this forum available for more people and free. We have every day more than one thousand unique visitors. I really love people like No-X who try do something. Many thanks! I also would say thank you for you Klaus for macrolenses.de. I think these are same cases: Try to improve people knowladge about old values.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Was this list ever updated?

The reason I ask this is because I just got a very nice 17-bladed Biotar 1:2 f=5,8cm T. It's hard for me to find similar versions on the web because this seems to be the first postwar version (heavy chrome over brass, but with alu screwmount), ser.# 3067082. I think the lens dates around 1946. I usually only find references to the black version or the alu version, not the chromed brass ones.

No-X, do you have that version too?


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The lens in question (chrome over brass). Crappy phone cam pic but what the heck... Smile



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you know serial number (at least 3-4 first numbers?)


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Do you know serial number (at least 3-4 first numbers?)


Yes, that was in the second last post. It's #3067082.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice your post at previous page. I should make some changes in the list anyway, cause I found more pre-wars models of Biotars... Some models, which are often rated as pre-war models, are possibly post-war (in fact, they were possibly designed at the end of war and assembled of parts made at the of war, but serial numbers are post-war.

Here is my current list of Biotar models - your lens seems to be the "2.c" model, but a bit earlier than the examples I found on web Smile


  1. pre-war + war-time (pre-M42)

    1. 5,8 cm, chrome, no coating, 8 blades, manual [207xxxx-258xxxx -> 1937-1939]
    2. 5,8 cm, chrome, T, 8 blades(?), manual, extremely rare [282xxxx -> 1942]

  2. manual (early post-war era)

    1. 5,8 cm, black, T, 17 blades [333xxxx-344xxxx -> 1950-1952]
    2. 5,8 cm, chrome, T, 17 blades [315xxxx-342xxxx -> 1948-1952]
    3. 5,8 cm, alu, T, 17 blades [315xxxx -> 1948]
    4. 58 mm, chrome, T 17 blades [340xxxx-354xxxx -> 1952]

  3. pre-set (post-war, pre-set)

    1. 58 mm, alu, T, 12 blades [347xxxx-359xxxx -> 1952 (M42 model - Contax D), 332xxx -> 1951 (Exakta)]
    2. 58 mm, alu, T, 10 blades [383xxxx-444xxxx -> 1954-1956, 476xxxx (export model "B" for M42) -> 1957, 370xxxx-374xxxx -> 1953 (Exakta), 481xxx -> 1957 (export model "C.Z.Jena" for Praktina)]
    3. 58 mm, alu, without T (lens has basic coating), 10 blades [442xxxx-472xxx -> 1956-1957 (M42)]

  4. semi-auto (semi-automatical iris)

    1. 58 mm, alu, without T (lens has some new coating, more effective than previous "non-T"), 10 blades, aperture ring is wavy [480xxx-576xxx -> 1957-1960 (M42), 553xxxx -> 1959 (Exakta)]


Values mentioned in the square brackets are examples of serial numbers.


Pictures:

1.a (254xxx ~ 1939)


1.b (282xxx ~ 1942)


2.a (333xxx ~ 1949)


2.c (315xxx ~ 1949)


2.d (340xxxx ~ 1952)


3.a (359xxxx ~ 1952)


3.b (412xxxx ~ 1955)


3.c (442xxx ~ 1956)


4.a (509xxxx ~ 1958)


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice your post at previous page. I should make some changes in the list anyway, cause I found more pre-wars models of Biotars... Some models, which are often rated as pre-war models, are possibly post-war (in fact, they were possibly designed at the end of war and assembled of parts made at the of war, but serial numbers are post-war.

Here is my current list of Biotar models - your lens seems to be the "2.c" model, but a bit earlier than the examples I found on web Smile


Wow, thanks! But this makes it even more confusing for me. According to your list mine seems more like the 2.d version (it does not have a tapered base but a completely straight base).

Also, my example is 100% sure not aluminium but chromed brass. Quite a difference. According to your serial number ranges this even precedes 2.a but the outer styling is like 2.d. I should take better photos tonight, would that be helpful for you? I even have a 2.d in aluminium but without the extending black "collar".


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
sorry again, a typo... your version is "2.b"... it's similar to "2.d", but it's marked 5,8cm, while 2.d is 58mm


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be fair: the external design of 2.d existed in at least three flavors.

1. Chromed brass, 5,8cm
2. Aluminium, 5,8cm (see photo below, it's the right one)
3. Aluminium, 58mm



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
there were so many nuancies among the early M42 models...

1. Chromed brass, 5,8cm
It seems, that except the old pre-war chrome model (1.a and 1.b) there are at least 2 more chromed barrel designs

2. Aluminium, 5,8cm (see photo below, it's the right one)
3. Aluminium, 58mm

so, there are 3 versions of alu barrel:
1. the right one at your picture
2. similar to "2.d" (~the middle one at your picture)
3. and this one:



it's really confusing, beacause some lenses which are identical in shape, were manufactured in both alu and chromed brass version


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


CZJ Tessar 4cm 4.5 1938 exakta


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Keysersoze27 wrote:


CZJ Tessar 4cm 4.5 1938 exakta


Nice lens, but is it T-marked?
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