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List of CZJ M42 T-marked lenses?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The lens in question (chrome over brass). Crappy phone cam pic but what the heck... Smile



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you know serial number (at least 3-4 first numbers?)


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Do you know serial number (at least 3-4 first numbers?)


Yes, that was in the second last post. It's #3067082.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice your post at previous page. I should make some changes in the list anyway, cause I found more pre-wars models of Biotars... Some models, which are often rated as pre-war models, are possibly post-war (in fact, they were possibly designed at the end of war and assembled of parts made at the of war, but serial numbers are post-war.

Here is my current list of Biotar models - your lens seems to be the "2.c" model, but a bit earlier than the examples I found on web Smile


  1. pre-war + war-time (pre-M42)

    1. 5,8 cm, chrome, no coating, 8 blades, manual [207xxxx-258xxxx -> 1937-1939]
    2. 5,8 cm, chrome, T, 8 blades(?), manual, extremely rare [282xxxx -> 1942]

  2. manual (early post-war era)

    1. 5,8 cm, black, T, 17 blades [333xxxx-344xxxx -> 1950-1952]
    2. 5,8 cm, chrome, T, 17 blades [315xxxx-342xxxx -> 1948-1952]
    3. 5,8 cm, alu, T, 17 blades [315xxxx -> 1948]
    4. 58 mm, chrome, T 17 blades [340xxxx-354xxxx -> 1952]

  3. pre-set (post-war, pre-set)

    1. 58 mm, alu, T, 12 blades [347xxxx-359xxxx -> 1952 (M42 model - Contax D), 332xxx -> 1951 (Exakta)]
    2. 58 mm, alu, T, 10 blades [383xxxx-444xxxx -> 1954-1956, 476xxxx (export model "B" for M42) -> 1957, 370xxxx-374xxxx -> 1953 (Exakta), 481xxx -> 1957 (export model "C.Z.Jena" for Praktina)]
    3. 58 mm, alu, without T (lens has basic coating), 10 blades [442xxxx-472xxx -> 1956-1957 (M42)]

  4. semi-auto (semi-automatical iris)

    1. 58 mm, alu, without T (lens has some new coating, more effective than previous "non-T"), 10 blades, aperture ring is wavy [480xxx-576xxx -> 1957-1960 (M42), 553xxxx -> 1959 (Exakta)]


Values mentioned in the square brackets are examples of serial numbers.


Pictures:

1.a (254xxx ~ 1939)


1.b (282xxx ~ 1942)


2.a (333xxx ~ 1949)


2.c (315xxx ~ 1949)


2.d (340xxxx ~ 1952)


3.a (359xxxx ~ 1952)


3.b (412xxxx ~ 1955)


3.c (442xxx ~ 1956)


4.a (509xxxx ~ 1958)


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice your post at previous page. I should make some changes in the list anyway, cause I found more pre-wars models of Biotars... Some models, which are often rated as pre-war models, are possibly post-war (in fact, they were possibly designed at the end of war and assembled of parts made at the of war, but serial numbers are post-war.

Here is my current list of Biotar models - your lens seems to be the "2.c" model, but a bit earlier than the examples I found on web Smile


Wow, thanks! But this makes it even more confusing for me. According to your list mine seems more like the 2.d version (it does not have a tapered base but a completely straight base).

Also, my example is 100% sure not aluminium but chromed brass. Quite a difference. According to your serial number ranges this even precedes 2.a but the outer styling is like 2.d. I should take better photos tonight, would that be helpful for you? I even have a 2.d in aluminium but without the extending black "collar".


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
sorry again, a typo... your version is "2.b"... it's similar to "2.d", but it's marked 5,8cm, while 2.d is 58mm


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be fair: the external design of 2.d existed in at least three flavors.

1. Chromed brass, 5,8cm
2. Aluminium, 5,8cm (see photo below, it's the right one)
3. Aluminium, 58mm



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
there were so many nuancies among the early M42 models...

1. Chromed brass, 5,8cm
It seems, that except the old pre-war chrome model (1.a and 1.b) there are at least 2 more chromed barrel designs

2. Aluminium, 5,8cm (see photo below, it's the right one)
3. Aluminium, 58mm

so, there are 3 versions of alu barrel:
1. the right one at your picture
2. similar to "2.d" (~the middle one at your picture)
3. and this one:



it's really confusing, beacause some lenses which are identical in shape, were manufactured in both alu and chromed brass version


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


CZJ Tessar 4cm 4.5 1938 exakta


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Keysersoze27 wrote:


CZJ Tessar 4cm 4.5 1938 exakta


Nice lens, but is it T-marked?


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:

it's really confusing, beacause some lenses which are identical in shape, were manufactured in both alu and chromed brass version


To make it more confusing: There are some bi-metal-ones, too, half chromed brass and half aluminum... #2826030

Klaus

Last edited by exaklaus on Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exaklaus wrote:
no-X wrote:

it's really confusing, beacause some lenses which are identical in shape, were manufactured in both alu and chromed brass version


To make it more confusing: There are some bi-metal-ones, to, half chromed brass and half aluminum... #2826030

Klaus


Not to mention the strange fact that my brass version #3067082 (pictured below, shown again to be 100% clear) has a M42 mount in... aluminium!



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think that some of these lenses (or its parts) were manufactured at the end of war time, but they were assembled later. Maybe they were manufactured dureing war with exakta mount, which was replaced by M42 mount after war.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spotmatic wrote:


Nice lens, but is it T-marked?


No but it's can be use as a picture in the list for this one

Tessar T 40/4.5
1 pre war "4cm" (???)<--- Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
....but this one is the 4cm 4.5 T one Wink



PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My two Biotars. Left the alu 58mm f/2 T version, right the chromed brass 5,8cm f/2 T version. Also notice the difference in the color of the coating. I suppose the 5,8cm version has a somewhat simpler coating, which was improved in the later 58mm version.





PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I've been wondering about T coatings and Flektogons, I don't see many being labeled T, how rare are they? I mean, I thought they didn't make any, so I never even looked for one.
Not my pic:


PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let me resurrect this valuable post with a question:

Tessar T 50/3.5
pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades [picture]
post-war, pre-set, ALU [picture]

I think post war model has 12 blades?



PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Let me resurrect this valuable post with a question:

Tessar T 50/3.5
pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades [picture]
post-war, pre-set, ALU [picture]

I think post war model has 12 blades?]

IMHO the serial number is the best way to determine pre- or post-war Your lens is. If it is above 3 millions, it will be definitely post-war lens. Zeiss Jena pre-war lenses with the original T coating are very rare. Some history about the T coating can be found here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169355-quot-When-did-pre-war-Zeiss-start-applying-coatings-quot-and-other-questions-about-Tessars&p=1649568&viewfull=1#post1649568


PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Max78 wrote:
Pancolart wrote:
Let me resurrect this valuable post with a question:

Tessar T 50/3.5
pre-war, manual, "5cm", ALU, 14 blades [picture]
post-war, pre-set, ALU [picture]

I think post war model has 12 blades?]

IMHO the serial number is the best way to determine pre- or post-war Your lens is. If it is above 3 millions, it will be definitely post-war lens. Zeiss Jena pre-war lenses with the original T coating are very rare. Some history about the T coating can be found here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169355-quot-When-did-pre-war-Zeiss-start-applying-coatings-quot-and-other-questions-about-Tessars&p=1649568&viewfull=1#post1649568

It was aperture count related inquiry. Serial number does not help there.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:

It was aperture count related inquiry. Serial number does not help there.


Early post-war Tessars have 17 blades.
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