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Leitz Wetzlar Elmarit 90mm/F2.8 (M bayonet)
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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Leitz Wetzlar Elmarit 90mm/F2.8 (M bayonet) Reply with quote
Today I had the 90mm Elmarit with me and made some sample shots with my Ricoh GXR-M.
Informations about the lens: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Elmarit_f%3D_9_cm_1:2.8
My copy is from 1972 in black (lens made in Germany).
Sample Photos shot at F4 (Rose at F2.8 ) free hand. Original sun shade was used. Shot RAW but neither sharpening nor PP.

Complete Picture:



100% crop:



Complete:



Crop:



Complete:



Crop:



Lens seems to be O.K. at least for my taste.

The used equipment (photo from the smart phone):



PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some more as before:





PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like the close-up shots - this is one Leitz lens that I've never actually owned. Maybe I should rectify that . . . Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
I like the close-up shots - this is one Leitz lens that I've never actually owned. Maybe I should rectify that . . . Wink


For tele use the 135mm Elmar is definitely the better choice as you can easily see in my other thread:
http://forum.mflenses.com/leitz-elmar-135mm-f4-m39-ltm-t71382.html

However, for other purposes such as close-up's or portraits I would see the 90mm Elmarit as the better choice. Here is also the faster aperture of F2.8 an advantage.

BTW, I am facing some problems now to adopt the lens heads of both lenses for macro purposes onto my Nikon bellows. That's a rather tricky issue as unfortunately the head of the 135 Elmar doesn't fit into the M42 to Nikon F adapter. So I had to order some additional Leica accessories like the macro focusing adapter and the necessary 135mm lens head adapter for it. Together with the Nikon F to Leica M adapter it should finally work then for both lens heads (90 and 135mm) at least on my Ricoh. Maybe a Visoflex viewer would also be nice. I'll think about it. Luckily there is an Visoflex to Nikon F adapter available and Nikon F can be easily adopted to Leica M. So I have got also the necessary requirements to look for a Telyt lens... Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I received all the necessary accessories to adopt my Leica lens heads to my cameras like already reported in my other thread about the Elmar 135mm lens here: http://forum.mflenses.com/leitz-elmar-135mm-f4-m39-ltm-t71382,start,30.html#1439415

Today I've also received my Visoflex to Nikon F adapter from China and tested it with the Elmarit 90mm lens head. That combination results in a decent 90mm macro lens comprising of the detachable lens head from the original Elmarit lens, the Leica macro focusing tube for Visoflex (for the 65/90/135mm lens heads) and the (Roxen/China) adapter from Visoflex-M to Nikon F and could be used on any camera which is able to adopt Nikon F lenses. In my case on the Nikon F to Leica M adapter (also from Roxen/China) was necessary to adopt this combination on the Ricoh GXR-M. However, I can use it also on my NEX or MFT camera and Nikon F to Canon or Fuji is available too.

The real positive aspect of this assembly is that it leads to a fully usable high quality lens which is able to focus at infinity up to decent macro capabilities as will be shown hereafter.

The combination looks like this:



And here are my first example test shots, whereas the 2 Euro coin is approximately the maximal reachable size.
In both cases the flash was used in order to make free hand shooting possible. Just resized for presentation. No crop or PP.




I am quite satisfied with my new acquisition of adapters as they extend the use of my existing Leica lenses very positively.
However, I am still looking for an adapter Visoflex to Minolta/Sony AF as the use on my Sony A850 just with the tube would be great as well. So far the use on the A850 is limited to the use with bellows only, which is neither portable nor maintaining infinity focus. That's a pity as this high quality lenses (90 and 135) would be very nice on FF too.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks impressive ! I could get the 'hots; for that lens, but I prefer the chrome version Rolling Eyes

More seriously, do the Roxsen adapters lock up firmly on the body and/or other adapters? I'm tired of Chinese ones that have radial movement when on the body.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
Looks impressive ! I could get the 'hots; for that lens, but I prefer the chrome version Rolling Eyes

More seriously, do the Roxsen adapters lock up firmly on the body and/or other adapters? I'm tired of Chinese ones that have radial movement when on the body.


Stephen,

Almost all of my adapters are either from Roxen or Orchidspace from China. Especially those for the adaption of SLR lenses to Leica M. They deliver good quality for reasonable prices and deliver mainly free of charge to Europe. As the single items are below the limits to be taxable too that's a real bargain. My experience is very positive, i.e. there is no radial movement if I connect the Visoflex tube with the Visoflex to Nikon F adapter (which is actually from Orchidspace) to the Nikon F to Leica M adapter (from Roxen) and the whole assembly to the camera. If I pull hard enough, then rather the M-mount module in the GXR-body is a little bit moving but none of the lens adapters. Generally I have rather good experience with Chinese adapters and only if such adapters are not available I look for the more expensive ones, which most probably are also produced in China. I have two adapters from Novoflex also and yes they are of good quality, but their prices are insane. Almost at the same level of original Leitz products when new.

BTW, I've seen that Orchidspace is also offering an Leica R adapter to Minolta AF. So with the adapter for Leica M lenses to Leica R cameras (original Leitz) which is unfortunately awful expensive I could eventually use the portable combination without bellows also on my A850. Will see.

I've seen that the chrome version is easier to get than the black version. At the Leicashop they have presently 7 in chrome and only 2 in black for sale.... Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You have lot better result what I did, congrats!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
You have lot better result what I did, congrats!


In terms of the usage of Chinese adapters or with the lens as such?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did try this lens at winter time I got nothing special result , I like your shoots lot better.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It looks nothing special to me either.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It looks nothing special to me either.


Well, that's what I like most if a lens doesn't turn out to be special but delivers clean pictures free from artifacts and errors.
Additionally the very smooth bokeh as a result of the 12 blades of the aperture suits my taste very well.
Of course, for me with my Ricoh GXR-M it has some extra charming to use Leica-M lenses directly without any need for an adapter.
Finally it's rather small and handy especially compared to adapted SLR lenses and as lens head in combination with the macro focusing option or on a bellows it's rather extraordinary. Wink
All in all for a lens in the price range like my Tamron AF 90/2.8 macro (also bought second hand) for my A850 it's not a bad deal at all.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If by errors you mean aberrations, I can see quite a lot of glow on the tree and the geese, which is residual aberrations, probably coma with a bit of spherical aberration.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
If by errors you mean aberrations, I can see quite a lot of glow on the tree and the geese, which is residual aberrations, probably coma with a bit of spherical aberration.


If my memory serves me right, the tree was at F2.8. There is barely any lens in existence which delivers failure free pictures when fully open. At least I can live with failures like this and have already seen many lenses which perform worse. As I've already told you, I am rather provocating failures when I show sample pictures of a lens here opposed to some others who prefer to show their best pictures. Therefore I do not correct anything but show only the plain converted RAW files for presentation.
However, just out of curiosity, could you eventually provide a picture of a lens which makes you happy in every aspect?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is no such thing as a perfect lens. However, I expect better from a Leica lens, this one looks to be closer in performance to a third party Japanese lens like the Sankor 2.5/105 than to a top German lens like the Sonnar 2.8/85.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian,I think he asked what lens makes you happy, not what lens was perfect.Out of all the lenses you have tried, there must be the special ones that make you happy when you use them?

I have never seen an all black version that sort of looks like a Takumar in styling.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There is no such thing as a perfect lens. However, I expect better from a Leica lens, this one looks to be closer in performance to a third party Japanese lens like the Sankor 2.5/105 than to a top German lens like the Sonnar 2.8/85.

I had same impression about this lens I had in black finish, my Zeiss lenses were miles ahead before this lens. These samples lot better what I did , so imagine my face when I saw my samples from a lens what go on this price ~500-700 USD if I remember well.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are lots of lenses that I really enjoy using. Hard to pick one, but I have a particular soft spot for the Sonnars such as the 1.5/50 4/135, both for the Contax RF. I also like the Fujinon-TV 1.8/75 a lot, too some of my best pictures with it, it is a biotar design.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There is no such thing as a perfect lens. However, I expect better from a Leica lens, this one looks to be closer in performance to a third party Japanese lens like the Sankor 2.5/105 than to a top German lens like the Sonnar 2.8/85.


Well, it is said that this Leica lens delivers the optimum performance starting at F5.6 (center) and F11 (overall) on FF cameras like the M9.
I have looked up testing reports of your mentioned 85mm Sonnar and it seems that it delivers a slightly higher performance at open apertures (2.8 to 4) obviously on the Sony A7 as there is no other camera in existence which is able to take that lens for FF usage.
I didn't even test my lens at apertures smaller than F4 so far, except for the macro shots. Maybe I will do that later.
I do not have any comparable third party Japanese lens, so I cannot say anything about that.
However, as the Sonnar with it's C/Y bayonet would not fit on my A850 it doesn't help me anyway and I am not really prepared to spend more than let's say 50 Euros for a lens which doesn't fit natively at least on 1 of my cameras. At least I can use the Elmarit for macro on my FF camera. That said, to spend 250 to 300 Euros for the Sonnar is out of scope for me, even if it beats the Elmarit wide open.
Last but not least I wouldn't use any of those cameras and lenses if I would require optimum quality for maximum output size. For this task I have my series of middle format cameras and lenses anyway, even for macro photography (Mamiya Super 23 / 6x9).


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There is no such thing as a perfect lens. However, I expect better from a Leica lens, this one looks to be closer in performance to a third party Japanese lens like the Sankor 2.5/105 than to a top German lens like the Sonnar 2.8/85.

I had same impression about this lens I had in black finish, my Zeiss lenses were miles ahead before this lens. These samples lot better what I did , so imagine my face when I saw my samples from a lens what go on this price ~500-700 USD if I remember well.


Attila, my Elmarit is approximately in the same price range as the mentioned C/Y Sonnar lens. If my memory serves me right I've spent approximately 300 Euros for it (Leicashop/Vienna) as otherwise I would not have it. Wink
I am not prepared to spend much more than that for a rather normal MF lens, not even for RF cameras. My really expensive ones are all AF lenses for my A850, besides some old MF lenses which are already apprx. 30 years in my collection and gained value for just sitting around somewhere.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:

I have never seen an all black version that sort of looks like a Takumar in styling.


The silver version is more common. However, I don't really care. At the time I purchased this lens it was more reasonable than the silver one. So it was just a matter of price for me. You are right, the styling of the old M42 Takumars and also of the full metal Rokkors (MC version II) is quite similar.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very Happy Ah yes, the price is the most important factor,it is good that you know what you like and need for both lenses and cameras.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For comparison's sake, here's the cheap (20-30ukp) and common Sankor 2.5/105 on my NEX-3:




I don't have a Sonnar 2.8/85 either as I have several very nice lenses in the 75-100mm range, not least of which is a Russian Jupiter-9 2/85 copy of the Contax Sonnar, plenty sharp enough on the a850:




Surprisingly, probably the best lens in the 75-100mm range I own that will fit the a850 is a rare 1950s Ross Xpress f3.5 4" in M42:



The outright sharpest for my a850 is probably this Staeble f4 107mm process lens, which I think is a plasmat type:




Not the sharpest, but with a very nice character is the Zeiss Jena Biometar 2.8/80, even the earliest 1960s single coated ones like I have are very capable on the a850:




PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There are lots of lenses that I really enjoy using. Hard to pick one, but I have a particular soft spot for the Sonnars such as the 1.5/50 4/135, both for the Contax RF. I also like the Fujinon-TV 1.8/75 a lot, too some of my best pictures with it, it is a biotar design.


OK, so generally you like rather the Zeiss lenses. I cannot say too much about those lenses. The only "real" ones I have are very old Exakta ones (pre-war) and they are rather average or even below for my taste. Among the Russian Zeiss copies are some nicer ones as long as maximal lens shades are used. Otherwise they tend to flare rather strong. But that's also true for the old originals.
Out of western Germany production or even newer or contemporary production I haven't had any Zeiss lens so far and if I look at their price tags nowadays that will stay like this. GDR Zeiss lenses are out of scope for me because of their low mechanical quality. I hate troubles.
Besides that I don't have any preferences. The reason for the purchase of Leica lenses is simply my Ricoh GXR-M camera and nothing else. In 1.5/50 for RF I have the Voigtlaender Nokton and the Jupiter 3. That's good enough for me. However neither in 50mm nor in 135mm I've done a real comparison up to now. But I've planned to do it later this year. As I have a lot of these lenses RF and SLR that will be a rather huge task. But I am already curios about the outcome.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
For comparison's sake, here's the cheap (20-30ukp) and common Sankor 2.5/105 on my NEX-3:

I don't have a Sonnar 2.8/85 either as I have several very nice lenses in the 75-100mm range, not least of which is a Russian Jupiter-9 2/85 copy of the Contax Sonnar, plenty sharp enough on the a850:


Thanks for sharing. As stated already, I will do a comparison later this year, similar to my already published 35mm lens test here.
Until that time I am not even able to say which lens I like more than the other one. It's also a matter of fact that lenses deliver different results on different digital cameras. We had this discussion already. At least you have also a Sony A850. That makes it more easy to discuss about lens differences. Wink
I just can say whether a lens delivers pictures which are OK for me on this or that camera or not.
My Leica lenses are OK for me. Maybe I have others in my collection which are even better, also for my taste. I simply don't know yet.
At the end of the day it's a matter of taste and personal preferences.
Sometimes I am really amused about the bokeh discussions. Especially the "oriental style" bokeh. I simply don't like it and other's are somehow crazy about or even obsessed. Finally also sharpness and resolution are sometimes not the most important factor for me. The overall subjective and personal impression counts and nothing else.
I am happy to share my test results here. Some like it and some don't. That's life. Smile
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