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b.soysal
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject: kiron 28mm f2 - anyone has its optical formula diagram? |
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b.soysal wrote:
Hello all, I was disassembling my kiron 28/2 lens to clean oily aperture blades. While disassembling the second front element, the third element also fell with it, but I wasn't able to see which side it was facing. It's slightly curved outwards on one side and slightly curved invards on the other side. If anyone could post the optical formula of the lens, I'd appreciate it.
By the way, I reassembled the lens taking my 50% chance. Sharpness seems OK to me, but the image looks a bit hazy and there is a weird halo around light sources, is it normal for this lens? Or is it because I mounted that lens element on the wrong side. I appreciate any help.
Here is a shot wide open at f2 I took from my balcony on a 1.6x crop body. Sorry for the boring photo.
http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20111/1995_IMG_6404_full_1.jpg
halo around light source:
http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20111/1995_IMG_6404_crop1_1.jpg
weird shaped halo:
http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20111/1995_IMG_6404_crop2_1.jpg
Thanks
Last edited by b.soysal on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: kiron 28mm f2 - anyone has its optical formula diagram? |
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Esox lucius wrote:
| b.soysal wrote: |
Here is a shot wide open at f2 I took from my balcony on a 1.6x crop body. Sorry for the boring photo.
halo around light source:
weird shaped halo:
Thanks |
New members with 0 posts have image posting prevented, this quote will fix it and from now on your images show up normally |
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b.soysal
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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b.soysal wrote:
Thanks a lot, I was trying to figure out how to fix it. |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
I don't know this lens very well though I have used it some years ago. I got it near free, sold it on eBay as I considered results inadequate for professional use (please note that doesn't mean it isn't good for most photographic use!). I don't have the lens diagram unfortunately, but here's some links that could be useful.
It has 8 elements in 8 groups
http://cybernetdenis.net/vivitar.htm
Wild guess but the optical scheme could be similar to the Nikkor 28/2 Ai-S, which looks like this (sorry for the bad screenshot, site hosting image is temporarily down and that's a screen cap from Google image search)
The same lens is also branded differently depending on serial, see
http://www.cameraquest.com/VivLensManuf.htm
Here's a sample (though subject is not useful for comparison) shot wide open and uploaded original size:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pasipasi/3077777189/
Of mflenses users patrickh seems to have this lens (signature listing).
Tested wide open
http://homepage3.nifty.com/3rdpartylens-om/Lens%20Test/28mm/28mmLensTest2.htm
http://homepages.caverock.net.nz/~bj/zuiko/00100312.htm
_________________
Vilhelm
Nikon DSLR: D4, D800, Nikon D3, D70
Nikon SLR: Nikon F100, Nikon FM2n
Nikkor MF: 20/2.8 Ai-S, 24/2 Ai-S, 24/2.8 Ai-S, 28/2 Ai-S, 28/2.8 Ai-S, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 Ai-S, 45/2.8 GN, 50/1.2 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.4 Ai-S, 50/1.8 AI-S "long", 50/1.8 AI-S "short", 55/1.2 Ai, 85/1.4 Ai-S, 85/1.8H, 105/2.5 Ai, 135/2.8Q, 135/3.5 Ai, 180/2.8 Ai-S ED
Nikkor AF/AF-S FX: 14-24/2.8G, 16/2.8D Fisheye, 16-35/4G VR, 17-35/2.8D, 24/1.4G, 24/3.5D PC-E, 24/2.8D, 24-70/2.8G, 28/1.4D, 28/1.8G, 35/1.4G, 35/2D, 50/1.4D, 50/1.4G, 50/1.8G, 60/2.8 Micro, 60/2.8G Micro, 70-200/2.8G VR, 70-200/2.8G VR II, 80-400/4.5-5.6D VR, 85/1.4G, 85/2.8D PC-E Micro, 105/2D DC, 105/2.8G VR Micro, 135/2D DC, 200/2G VR, 200-400/4G VR, 300/2.8G VR, 300/4D ED, 400/2.8G VR, 800/5.6E VR
Nikkor AF/AF-S DX: 10.5/2.8G Fisheye, 12-24/4G, 18-70/3.5-4.5G
Topcor: Auto-Topcor 58/1.4,
Voigtländer SL: 40/2 Ultron, 58/1.4 Nokton, 75/2.5 Color-Heliar, 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar, 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar, 180/4 APO-Lanthar
Zeiss ZF: Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF
M42 SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM
M42: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.4, Tessar 50/2.8 T, Super-Takumar 55/1.8, Biotar 58/2 T, Pentacon 135/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5
Medium format: several Zeiss Super Ikonta 532/16 Opton-Tessar 80mm f/2.8, Zeiss Ikonta 524/16 Opton-Tessar 75mm f/3.5
Leica: R7, M4, Super-Angulon-R 4/21, Elmarit-R 2.8/28, Summicron-R 2/35, Summicron-M 2/35, Summicron-M 2/50, Elmarit-R 2,8/180 |
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b.soysal
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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b.soysal wrote:
Vilhelm, thank you very much for your help. I couldn't find the optical construction formula online but people who have this lens have commented that the the lens has glow wide-open, which was actually my concern. I believe I put the glass element in the correct direction.
I also found the lens hazy, but I made some tests and i found that flare is reducing contrast. My copy is so prone to flare, I wouldn't have expected from a multicoated lens. Maybe the residue of the cleaning material I used caused this flare-sensitivity, I don't know.
Vilhelm, what was the reason that you found this lens unusable for professional work? Lack of autofocus? |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
| b.soysal wrote: |
| Vilhelm, what was the reason that you found this lens unusable for professional work? Lack of autofocus? |
I use a lot of manual focus lenses for client work, for me AF is not a must unless situation really requires it.
Reasons I passed on this lens:
1) chromatic aberration more than I want, because more time spent post-processing is not desirable
2) spherical aberration lowered contrast and I remember lens required stopping down a lot to improve
3) Nikkor 28/2 was clearly better than the Kiron, until I bought the Nikkor 28/1.4 from one of the last factory stock before it was discontinued. While hideously expensive of course, the 28/1.4 wiped the floor with the other lenses. Later I sold all: Kiron 28/2, Nikkor 28/2, Sigma 28/1.8, Sigma 30/1.4
Vilhelm |
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BRunner
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 705
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
Here is the optical scheme of Kino made Vivitar 2/28. I think it's the same lens. Hope this helps.
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7588
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
| BRunner wrote: |
Here is the optical scheme of Kino made Vivitar 2/28. I think it's the same lens. Hope this helps.
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I owned both lens and I can confirm they should be the same lens. The only different is the Kiron version has a shorter helicoid.
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b.soysal
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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b.soysal wrote:
Vilhelm, thank you for sharing your experience. I bought this lens extremely cheap 2 years ago(18 dollars). It had the oily aperture and I didn't have the tools to fix it back then, it stayed in the drawer for the past 2 years. From what i see, it does an amazing job for the price. But anyway, I'm an amateur and it's good to know that it's not suitable for professional work.
Brunner, I looked for that optical formula all over internet but couldn't find it. Even kiron yahoo group doesn't have it. Thank you very much for digging it up for me.
Calvin, yes it looks like the same optical formula as my lens. |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10472
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
for 18$ complaints should not be allowed 
mine is 'usable' on crop with lot pp
http://forum.mflenses.com/kiron-282-mc-samples-t9657.html
on full frame, it didn't pass the test
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b.soysal
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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b.soysal wrote:
I'm not complaining, I just wanted to make sure I did the repair right  And as a side advantage, if anyone else searches the lens formula online, now he/she will be able to find it
It seems impossible to find this lens for $18 again. The prices of the old lenses have risen so much in the past two years. (for minolta mf lenses, thanks to micro 4/3)
Checked your photos, they came out very nice, so you shouldn't be allowed to complain either It seems the distagon has spoiled you so much |
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BRunner
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 705
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
In my tests, this Kiron is good for close-up. But it struggles at infinity. Even at f11 the corners are soft on APS-C.
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
Just checked recent prices on kiron 28
about 8 sales listed
low 96usd
high 200usd!!
the rest around 150!!!
I paid 95 for mine 3 months ago, but have now replaced it with nikkor f/2
I thought I was a fool to pay that much at the time--but maybe I will get my money out of it.
But I bet the kiron is as sharp as the sigma 28....or?
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Lens is prone to dust. You might check that before posting samples. If clean it really gives superb results. But some will never like that special (background running away from center) bokeh.
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
| Lens is prone to dust. You might check that before posting samples. If clean it really gives superb results. But some will never like that special (background running away from center) bokeh. |
Could you show us some links to examples?
ty, sir
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
| uhoh7 wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
| Lens is prone to dust. You might check that before posting samples. If clean it really gives superb results. But some will never like that special (background running away from center) bokeh. |
Could you show us some links to examples?
ty, sir |
You need sample photos or sample of lens defects? I don't have links i can make those for you. I have for instance very dusty Pentax PK version. And i made fine full frame - wide open samples with clean Minolta MD converted to EOS. Many more Kirons 2/28 went through my hands through time so i dare saying the above.
Kiron bokeh running away
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7588
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:53 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Here is my close up with a clean OM Kiron2/28 adapted to EOS.
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The best lens is the one you have with you.
https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/ |
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