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Fotodiox RhinoCam
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Fotodiox RhinoCam Reply with quote
anybody see THIS:

http://news.yahoo.com/rhinocam-fotodiox-puts-power-full-size-645-medium-130051024.html

my first thought was holy freaking cow, i want one now! my second thought was, as amazing as this seems, based wholly on inference from the scant info available, it seems this is only a tripod system that cannot be used handheld.

thoughts?

tony


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes a tripod system -- looks like you can compose on a ground glass, then slide the camera part over and take a series sliding the cam across positions. Then you stitch them together in photoshop. One can do this manually, but I suppose the rhinocam has the advantage of more precision and a single lens. I'd wonder what fotodiox does about dust in the sensor when the cam is in the 'out' position?


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Similar products have existed for a while where the camera end would be MF digital backs or DSLRs and the lens end would be for large format lenses.

The advantage over handheld multi-shot stitching and even using pano-heads like Nodal Ninjas is that the lens stays stationary while the sensor is moved around to capture various parts of the image circle. Which makes stitching easy, fast, and most importantly, possible without introducing any distortion, and there is virtually ZERO parallax error.

Indeed, there is actually a similar product where the lens end is MF and camera end is DSLR, which is the Zörk panorama shift:
http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_psa.htm

The novelty of the Fotodiox Rhino is that by coupling MF lenses and mirror less APS-C camera, they have a huge amount of flange focal delta to work with, which makes it less costly to design and manufacture. With the Zörk system, the lack in the delta necessitates high-precision mechanics to be crammed into a small area, which is why they're so expensive. Kind of like how Mirex tlt/shift adapters for FF DSLRs is so much more expensive compared to, say, Kipon tilt shift adapters for mirrorless cameras.

But like all of these products, this is really for tripod use and so is really geared towards landscape and architectural photography. I still think it's really cool and considering the price, I'll probably buy it to pimp out my NEX6 Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh I'm in lust!

Here's the Fotodiox product page with a pic of the contraption and samples:

http://fotodioxpro.com/index.php/vizelex-rhinocam-for-sony-nex-e-mount-cameras.html

Exciting times to be a NEX owner.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks to me a simple pano stuff, Tobias pano guide less than 1$ and offer same Smile

http://forum.mflenses.com/a-beginners-guide-to-panorama-stitching-t19182.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/new-2012-advanced-guide-to-panorama-stiching-t49676.html


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpoHtVibYNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bZ8YYUFvm50

Well, after seeing the videos, I'll stick to the Tobias method Very Happy

What do you think guys?


PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TOBIAS! TOBIAS! TOBIAS! Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpoHtVibYNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bZ8YYUFvm50

Well, after seeing the videos, I'll stick to the Tobias method Very Happy

What do you think guys?


+10


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the RhinoCam is a very nice idea, and also a good thing to see more advanced products appearing for manual focus and vintage lens users. That is; I think it's great that things like this are made, even if I don't intend to use it myself.

Shifting the camera instead of the lens avoids most stitching issues and distortions; the only one remaining is movement in the scene (but this is clearly meant for landscape & architecture use), so I can see this being potentially a huge time saver and simplifier for those who frequently take such photos. Personally I don't own a NEX (or suitable medium format lenses) so I'm not getting one, but I find it odd that it's being opposed on this of all forums. (If someone here had invented/built the device, I think the reaction would have been very different, even if almost all of us would still have stuck to manual panoramas.)


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think panos like Ian's and Tobias's are possible with this device, are they? The field of view is still limited by the focal length of the lens, even though the sensor takes different shots to stitch together to cover the whole image circle. What you end up with is a MF size image consisting of countless megamega pixels resolution, but not a wider field of view.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
I don't think panos like Ian's and Tobias's are possible with this device, are they? The field of view is still limited by the focal length of the lens, even though the sensor takes different shots to stitch together to cover the whole image circle. What you end up with is a MF size image consisting of countless megamega pixels resolution, but not a wider field of view.


Well, the field of view will be approx. that of the focal length on a 6×4.5 camera, so it will be much wider than the same lens used on the NEX with a normal adapter would be. (The effective size of the sensor is increased since it moves around capturing different parts of the medium format imaging circle.) But of course the final field of view depends on the lens used, whereas a panorama can be arbitrarily wide.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arkku wrote:
peterqd wrote:
I don't think panos like Ian's and Tobias's are possible with this device, are they? The field of view is still limited by the focal length of the lens, even though the sensor takes different shots to stitch together to cover the whole image circle. What you end up with is a MF size image consisting of countless megamega pixels resolution, but not a wider field of view.


Well, the field of view will be approx. that of the focal length on a 6×4.5 camera, so it will be much wider than the same lens used on the NEX with a normal adapter would be. (The effective size of the sensor is increased since it moves around capturing different parts of the medium format imaging circle.) But of course the final field of view depends on the lens used, whereas a panorama can be arbitrarily wide.


I think this adapter + Zodiak 30mm UWA would be a match made in heaven.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Zodiac 30mm. I don't see the use because the same thing is so readily achievable with software these days and while the Zodiac is an excellent lens, a shot made with it and this device would be of lesser quality to a shot made with several images shot with a 35mm SLR lens then stitched in software because the resolution of the Zodiac image is limited to that of the lens, whereas with the other approach you are getting multiples of the resolution of the lens. Hard to explain in simple words, sorry.

It's not hard to make a high MP image with a camera, I often make 40-50MP images with my NEX, you just take a few pictures and stitch them in photoshop. Distortion can be an issue but only if you use a wide lens that has distortion, with 35mm and longer, where distortion is very well corrected, it's no issue. Distortion in stitched images is really easy to fix anyways, you use the warp tool in photoshop or software like Giga's AutoPano has good tools built in for correcting distortion.

I'm not saying this device isn't practical, I'm just saying it's an inferior way of doing things compared to just using a camera on a tripod, taking a load of shots and stitching them in software.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arkku wrote:
I think the RhinoCam is a very nice idea, and also a good thing to see more advanced products appearing for manual focus and vintage lens users. That is; I think it's great that things like this are made, even if I don't intend to use it myself.

Shifting the camera instead of the lens avoids most stitching issues and distortions; the only one remaining is movement in the scene (but this is clearly meant for landscape & architecture use), so I can see this being potentially a huge time saver and simplifier for those who frequently take such photos. Personally I don't own a NEX (or suitable medium format lenses) so I'm not getting one, but I find it odd that it's being opposed on this of all forums. (If someone here had invented/built the device, I think the reaction would have been very different, even if almost all of us would still have stuck to manual panoramas.)


i couldnt agree more with this POV. whether i--or any other specific person-- will use it or not is not relevent, nor is the fact that something similar can be achieved in another way. both those miss the point, which is that this is a pretty amazing engineering advance, and it yields very high mp and high resolution files that cannot be achieved by other means. while we are all entitled to our own opinion, expressions like 'this is a waste of money' serve only to stifle conversation, are inherently disrespectful to other points of view, and really detract from the exchange of views that used to make this forum fun and educational.
tony


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Before you say high mp files cannot be achieved by other means, you ought to try some of those means.

All you need to do is stick your camera on a tripod, make a bunch of exposures then use either photoshop or autopano or even a free app like the microsoft one (I forget it's name now) to stitch them together. You don't even need a fancy pano head, any tripod will do.

A few examples, all done with NEX-3 which is 14.4MP and a Velbon tripod with standard head:

7543x6784, 48MP:



12232x4992, 58MP:



20812x8684, 172MP:



8958x7043, 60MP:



It's not just me, lots of other people such as Tobbsman have produced loads of high resolution high MP images using nothing more than a basic digital camera and a simple common or garden tripod.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So beautiful Ian, I like them a lot.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like the idea and diversity in this field is a good thing! Wink

I just can`t see my self using that thing, but I do not mind if others use and like it.
"Tobias way" work nicely for me and I will always use the sharpest part of the lens with this technique.. ...the center of the lens Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tony number of people has same opinion in this tread, including me, nothing wrong with "waste of money" some people like idea , some people think nothing new , not worth to pay for.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
like i said its great to have different opinions. my issue is how those opinions are expressed. if someone thinks its a good idea and someone doesnt, thats fine. but its insulting to tell some one that might think this is a great idea that its a waste. its needlessly nasty and it is very off putting. who wants to have a discussion with someone who tells you youre wasting your time? anyway i find that kind of talk annoying and fairly worthless as it is a conclusion and not an argument. it adds nothing to the discussion.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
I like the idea and diversity in this field is a good thing! Wink

I just can`t see my self using that thing, but I do not mind if others use and like it.
"Tobias way" work nicely for me and I will always use the sharpest part of the lens with this technique.. ...the center of the lens Very Happy


Well said, I agree.

I should, perhaps have been more verbose and said 'For me, it would be a waste of money as I find just a tripod and a bit of software to be perfectly adequate to make high mp images', but I was just exercising brevity and didn't add any caveats.

About the centre of the lens, yes, that was what I was trying to say earlier.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do any of y'all remember the Gigapan that was used with a Canon G-10 for that really huge shot of the crowds at BHO's inauguration?

http://www.gigapan.com/

1,474 mp with a G10.

Best thing is, it's actually priced fairly reasonably.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Do any of y'all remember the Gigapan that was used with a Canon G-10 for that really huge shot of the crowds at BHO's inauguration?

http://www.gigapan.com/

1,474 mp with a G10.

Best thing is, it's actually priced fairly reasonably.


No, I did hear it at first time, pano is a great thing and if works handheld like Tobias did share it already, that is most handy and go on lowest cost.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are loads of examples on the net of people building pretty fancy panoramic heads, I have never understood quite why, the software is so flexible, I have made handheld stitched images of 20-25 shots, you just don't need to be precise and move the camera a specific amount each time, just make sure the shots overlap plenty and all is good.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There are loads of examples on the net of people building pretty fancy panoramic heads, I have never understood quite why, the software is so flexible, I have made handheld stitched images of 20-25 shots, you just don't need to be precise and move the camera a specific amount each time, just make sure the shots overlap plenty and all is good.


Because lazzy to learn usually, easier to buy hardware...


PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There are loads of examples on the net of people building pretty fancy panoramic heads, I have never understood quite why, the software is so flexible, I have made handheld stitched images of 20-25 shots, you just don't need to be precise and move the camera a specific amount each time, just make sure the shots overlap plenty and all is good.


Because lazzy to learn usually, easier to buy hardware...


Smile

When one is poor, you can't be lazy, you have to try things.
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