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Eleven fast 85 mm Lenses compared
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:12 pm    Post subject: Eleven fast 85 mm Lenses compared Reply with quote
A few days ago some people were asking about 85 mm lenses. I have promised to compare a few of my lenses - here it is:

* Canon FD 1.8/85mm
* Canon new FD 1.8/85mm
* Canon new FD 1.2/85mm L
* Konica AR 1.8/85mm (newest version)
* Mamiya SX 1.7/85mm
* Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm
* Minolta MD-I 1.7/85mm
* Minolta MD-II 1.7/85mm
* Minolta AF 1.4/85mm (first version)
* Nikkor "K" 1.8/85mm (Ai mod)
* Sony FE 1.8/85mm

A few zooms have been tested at f=85mm; those results will follow in a few days.
I will post detailed comments and remarks on each lens aslo on my artaphot website.

S


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In this case the softest lenses are the best ones for nice smooth skinned portraiture and nobody cares what is happening in the corners. So Hurray for the Canon 1.2/85. Konica and Mamiya may stand on place two and three keeping a respectful distance.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
In this case the softest lenses are the best ones for nice smooth skinned portraiture and nobody cares what is happening in the corners. So Hurray for the Canon 1.2/85. Konica and Mamiya may stand on place two and three keeping a respectful distance.


"85 mm" not always means "portrait" Wink -

I have been testing the lenses at infinity, and from this test we can only judge their qualification for landscape purposes.

At portrait distance the result might be something quite different!! The "Sonnar" Nikkor 2.5/105mm, for instance, get's considerably softer at closer distances (which can be useful for a portrait lens). Similarly, the last element of the Minolta 1.4/85mm makes a strange non-linear movement while focusing - probably intended to specifically improve (=soften) the lens in portrait range (unlike the otherwise very similar Sony / Zeiss 1.4/85mm). I have notice (not shown here) that the Mamiya SX 1.7/85mm is extremely sharp and contrasty at typical portrait distances - so your judgement is slightly premature Wink

S


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Like 1 Like 1

Wow that Minolta MC-X really looks good here! (Discounting the FE, of course, which costs maybe 2x?)


PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Like 1 Like 1

Wow that Minolta MC-X really looks good here! (Discounting the FE, of course, which costs maybe 2x?)


Yes, I was really surprised as well - I had laid away the MC-X 1.7/85mm since I'd bought it "by mistake" a few years ago (it had fungus and a stuck aperture). Only a few weeks ago I finally completely dismantled an cleaned it. As you may have noticed, the MC-X images (as well as the MC-II, not shown here) have a slight yellowish tint. The MD 1.7/85mm doesn't have this yellowish tint. The same can be observed with earlier (yellowish) and later (neutral) MC-X 1.2/58mm lenses. It seems that Minolta has changed some glass, probably slightly modifying the optical computation as well.

S


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for your comparison!
Interestingly the corners of the Minoltas are better than the Sony’s stopped down.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Eleven fast 85 mm Lenses compared Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 small Like 1 small Like 1 small


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MD85 2,0 (which I own) does not seem worse than 1,7. And if you consider the weight...


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I lucked into a user version of the Minolta MC 85 1.7 that had been modded for use on the A mount for inexpensive on the bay. It is quite a nice lens it is one of my more used 85's . I also like the Konica quite a bit. Though 85 is not a FL I use much and I really like the tiny size and weight of the Schneider tele Arton though it is only an f4. I also have the Pancolar Electric 85 1.8 which is pristine and I am reluctant to use it too much. The other 85 I use on occasion is the Rolleinar 85 2.8. Is that the same optics as the Mamiya you have listed? I read somewhere that the Rolleinar were the lower cost alternatives for Rollei users and many were made by Mamiya.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You didn't compare the Topcon RE 85mm 1.8! just by happenstance one is up for auction on the bay right now.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
Based on the particular use case it might be beneficial to see how your slower 85mm lenses stack up.


I'm not aware of many slower 85mm lenses in the 1960-1985 time frame, but I may be wrong ... There's the Zeiss CY 2.8/85mm and a few soft focus lenses such as the Minolta MD 2.8/85 Soft Focus, the Canon FD 2.8/85mm Soft, and the Fujinon EBC 4/85mm Soft. Ah yes, Mamiya made a few 2.8/85mm as well, but based on how poor my Mamiya SX 2.8/105mm performs, I wouldn't assume them to be stellar (they are very similar in construction). Anything else I missed??

lumens pixel wrote:
MD85 2,0 (which I own) does not seem worse than 1,7. And if you consider the weight...

Actually I'm surprised the MD 2/85mm isn't much better than the MC/MD 1.7/85m !! I always had back in my mind that the MC/MD 1.7/85mm was a bit softer than the MD 2/85mm, probably since (back in analogue times) that was the general consensus at the the German "Minolta Forum".

jamaeolus wrote:
I lucked into a user version of the Minolta MC 85 1.7 ... It is quite a nice lens it is one of my more used 85's.
. All three versions (MC-II, MC-X and MD) are focusing very smoothly, very much like the Leica R 1.4/80mm. For me, they are "the right size" - not too small, not too big & heavy.

jamaeolus wrote:
I also like the Konica quite a bit.

Yes, the Konica AR 1.8/85mm has a very nice rendering wide open, if one looks for a slightly "soft" touch of the images. There's little astigmatism, and not much visible CAs. And stopped down it's contrasty and very sharp. A very versatile lens - however focusing and especially the aperture ring are quite stiff. The Minolta is much more fun to use!

jamaeolus wrote:
Though 85 is not a FL I use much and I really like the tiny size and weight of the Schneider tele Arton though it is only an f4.
Here's a Staeble Telon 5.6/85mm for Paxette which is probably even smaller Wink ...

jamaeolus wrote:
I also have the Pancolar Electric 85 1.8 which is pristine and I am reluctant to use it too much.

Would be interesting to see how it compares to one of the lenses tested here ... e. g. your Minolta 1.7/85mm!

jamaeolus wrote:
The other 85 I use on occasion is the Rolleinar 85 2.8. Is that the same optics as the Mamiya you have listed? I read somewhere that the Rolleinar were the lower cost alternatives for Rollei users and many were made by Mamiya.
As far as I know: Yes. But it's just knowledge taken from th internet ...

jamaeolus wrote:
You didn't compare the Topcon RE 85mm 1.8! just by happenstance one is up for auction on the bay right now.
Yeah, that one would be interesting - however I rarely spend much more than CHF / USD 250.-- for a lens I'll use just for testing / comparing. So the chances are slim I'll get a Topcor RE 1.8/85mm one day Wink. But you never know ...

BTW I think about re-doing the test at portrait distances, probably with a typical "outdoor" background (bushes / foliage) ...

S


PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks, it's an interesting comparison, but I do second the notion that landscape/infinity is not the use that jumps to mind when I think of 85mm.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
$657 plus tax plus delivery plus cleaning

For that sort of money you can get a Nikkor 85/1.4 and a Tak 85/1.9.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I suppose it's not useful to say, "Hey, what if you included lenses a and b in your test?"

You should include a Helios-40-2 (85mm 1.5) and a ZY Speedmaster (85mm 1.2).

Wink


PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A very informative test, although I found myself wishing I could enlarge the subjects even more.

I own only one of the lenses you tested -- the Canon nFD 85/1.8. It's a comfortably heavy little lump and I've been quite happy with its performance, both with my film Canons and my 24mp Sony NEX. To me, it appears that the old-style FD lens outperforms it by a small but noticeable margin. Doesn't surprise me. Almost all my Canon FD lenses are the older breechlock style, which I prefer. My 85 was part of a kit I bought some years ago.

I have another 85mm that could be considered the grandfather of the Canon 85mm f/1.2 L -- mine is the 85mm f/1.2 SSC Aspherical. Unlike the L lenses, which have 8 iris blades, mine has 9, which I think add somewhat to its bokeh smoothness. I'm very happy with it. I've never had the opportunity to try out an L version, but I have read more than once that people prefer the Aspherical to the L.

The only other prime I have that gets somewhat close to the 85mm focal length is my Nikon pre-AI (but AI'd by Nikon) 105/2.5. A nice lens and I like it, but I dunno how it would fare against the 85s anyway.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:


The only other prime I have that gets somewhat close to the 85mm focal length is my Nikon pre-AI (but AI'd by Nikon) 105/2.5. A nice lens and I like it, but I dunno how it would fare against the 85s anyway.


Humm... If you go that route to 105mm then the Minolta MD 100 2,5 would also knock at the door. I have the MDIII version and it is nice.

Last edited by lumens pixel on Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
jamaeolus wrote:
You didn't compare the Topcon RE 85mm 1.8! just by happenstance one is up for auction on the bay right now.


That would be $657 plus tax plus delivery plus cleaning. Another copy recently sold on Buyee (Yahoo.jp) for a similar price.



When I got mine, it was way less then; guess I was just lucky (it was all complete with sunshade and makers box)

Here some results using it: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157651084397351


PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Eleven fast 85 mm Lenses compared Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
A few days ago some people were asking about 85 mm lenses. I have promised to compare a few of my lenses - here it is:

* Canon FD 1.8/85mm
* Canon new FD 1.8/85mm
* Canon new FD 1.2/85mm L
* Konica AR 1.8/85mm (newest version)
* Mamiya SX 1.7/85mm
* Minolta MC-X 1.7/85mm
* Minolta MD-I 1.7/85mm
* Minolta MD-II 1.7/85mm
* Minolta AF 1.4/85mm (first version)
* Nikkor "K" 1.8/85mm (Ai mod)
* Sony FE 1.8/85mm

A few zooms have been tested at f=85mm; those results will follow in a few days.
I will post detailed comments and remarks on each lens aslo on my artaphot website.

S


Excellent work, thanks for sharing!!

Like 1 small Like 1 small Like 1 small


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
The other 85 I use on occasion is the Rolleinar 85 2.8. Is that the same optics as the Mamiya you have listed? I read somewhere that the Rolleinar were the lower cost alternatives for Rollei users and many were made by Mamiya.


The Mamiya Sekor SX 85mm 1.7 is a 4 groups 6 elements design. The Mamiya Sekor SX 85mm 2.8 a 4/4. The Rolleinar 85mm 2.8 a 4/4 and most likely identical to the last Sekor mentioned here.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe my little comparison of 85mm (and 90mm) lenses at typical portrait distance does add something to this discussion.

http://forum.mflenses.com/comparison-of-85mm-and-90mm-lenses-on-a7r-ii-t80206.html

At least for those who didn't already see it.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:
stevemark wrote:


BTW I think about re-doing the test at portrait distances, probably with a typical "outdoor" background (bushes / foliage) ...

S


I hope we don't discover that portrait quality is inversely proportional to corner sharpness.


That might well be the case, at least in some cases. And: How do you define "portrait quality"? Common wisdom might be "low contrast, smooth bokeh" but others might prefer high contrast also when shooting portraits. And there certainly are those who adore swirly bubble bokeh for "extraordinary" portraits Wink

I do these tests so that anyone can decide - based on reliable information! - what kind of lens he/she prefers.
Some, though, will learn that the differences are insignificant for their way of taking pictures: thus, they confidently can buy any of the lenses shown above ...

S


PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
KEO wrote:
I suppose it's not useful to say, "Hey, what if you included lenses a and b in your test?"

You should include a Helios-40-2 (85mm 1.5) and a ZY Speedmaster (85mm 1.2).

Wink


Interesting lenses, without any doubt.

As I said many times before: I simply buy ...

1) what's available locally
2) what interests me

I've never seen the Helios here in Switzerland, and the Speedmaster doesn't really interest me since even my MinAF 1.4/85mm is hardly ever used at f2, let alone at f1.4. I have, however, the Biotar 1.5/7.5cm which should be at least similar to the Helios. But that would be something for a "pre-war" portrait test, along with the Thambar 2.2/9cm and the Sonnar 2/85mm. And the 4/9cm Elmar amd the 5.6/8.5 cm Staeble Telon, just for fun!

S
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