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Confused about a Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Aperture+Priority+canon+50mm+f1.4

Very Happy


PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess padam means this article.
http://aperturepriority.co.nz/2013/05/28/the-japanese-summilux-canon-50mm-f1-4-ltm/

Strange thing... in this article Ver 2 is double Gauss (Planar, Xenon, etc..) while Ver 1 looks like Sonnar type with an extra lens at the rear. And as far as I count there are more than 6 lenses in Ver 1.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
He's as clueless as we are on the subject:

"Interestingly, whilst the optical design is similar, the schematics highlight what would appear to be differences in construction between the Type I and II, in addition to this the above schematics which were supplied by Canon have anomolies."


Type-I-Schematic by unoh7, on Flickr

There is no evidence I've seen besides some bizarre references like the one above. (....6....really 6....?) that they are different in optics. Interestingly type 1 was alot more expensive than type II.

The samples I've do not show different character...at least that I can detect.

But, I may be way off base. Certainly the AP article is no source for reliable info on this question. I'd love to know. Anyone who has had the lenses apart should be able to easily tell, at least the element count.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
that 'aperturepriority' article seems to be the only place that distinguishes different optical formulae for Ver. 1 and Ver. 2 showing a 7 elements in 4 groups scheme for Ver.1 but saying that it had a 6/4 scheme. Canonmuseum says that both Ver.1 and Ver.2 have a 6/4 scheme. Something doesn't check. 'Aperturepriority' is the only place that maintains that there are two different optical scheme 1.4/50 Canon LTM lenses but their information is faulty and therefore raises doubts. It looks to me as if it was more likely that both Ver.1 and Ver.2 have the same 6/4 optical scheme.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
He's as clueless as we are on the subject:


Type-I-Schematic by unoh7, on Flickr



Uhoh7, I love your opening line - 'clueless, us? surely not Very Happy

I think we can indeed be certain all the 50/1.4s are essentially similar optically, but this schematic is nevertheless interesting. He seems to be sayng it came direct from Canon - but I don't recall ever seeing it before.

The first Canon 50/1.5 lenses were 7 element designs. Kitchingman shows drawings of the Sonnar type. However, this unfamiliar lens seems to have eight elements and - to my non-technical eye - seems to be a complex Gauss pattern which might even have have something in common with the Nikon 50/1.1 which was being designed in the later 1950s. I wonder if this drawing might have been for a lens that was projected but never actually put into production - an aborted successor to the earlier 50/1.5 that was passed over in favour of the 50/1.4 we now know and love. (Well, some of us do)

Although this must remain purely conjectural in the absence of reliable evidence, abandoning such a complex design would have fitted perfectly with Canon's contemporary desire to shift towards designs that were simpler (i.e. cheaper) to manufacture - such as avoiding such steep curves as feature in this drawing. The main driver behind Canon's expansion plans was the wish to move towards a degree of mass production not previously seen in the camera industry in order to cut costs whilst maintaining quality that was the equal of the principal competitors.

Unfortunately, almost all the 'serious' literature on the Japanese camera industry is in Japanese, so that getting to grips with the technical and commercial underpinnings that resulted in the actual equipment is by no means easy. The 'why' something was made is really even more interesting than what was made . . .


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Kuuan and Stephen, Exactly!!

This myth about type II being the "one" is actually out there a bit. I have come across it in the past. But I asked I guy I know should know:

Brian, post: 9573, member: 42 wrote:
I've had both the Type 1 and Type 2: the only difference is in the focus mount. The Canon 50/1.4 is a 6 element in 4 group classic 1-2-2-1 Double Gauss.

Your diagram is a 1-3-3-1 8 element in 4 group Double Gauss- looks very close to the 5cm F1.5 Simlar which is a 1-3-2-1. I need to look up yours in Neblette's "Photographic Lenses".


This is a truly credible source, Brian at Leicaplace, who takes alot of old RF glass apart.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If he comes back with any info on the 'mystery lens' I would love to learn about it.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
He's as clueless as we are on the subject:


Type-I-Schematic by unoh7, on Flickr


The lens diagram above is for the Fujinon 5cm f1.2.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
uhoh7 wrote:
He's as clueless as we are on the subject:


Type-I-Schematic by unoh7, on Flickr


The lens diagram above is for the Fujinon 5cm f1.2.


I want one Smile

But not this bad:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fujinon-50mm-f-1-2-Original-Leica-Screw-L39-used-lens-with-caps-X15F0078-/161757258683?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Calvin83 writes The lens diagram above is for the Fujinon 5cm f1.2.

Thanks for the info Calvin83 ! Could you point me towards the source of your info so I can broaden my education still further, please?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's a type II.
The aperture ring doesn't have the marks above the aperture numbers that the type 1 does.
The DOF scale looks like the type II not the type 1.
So a late type 1 with type II parts, or a type II with some type 1 parts, or a batch of type II with only meter markings... I'm inclined to think its the last two possibilities since the serial number seems to be for a type II, though the only way to know for sure is to open it up to see the elements.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
Calvin83 writes The lens diagram above is for the Fujinon 5cm f1.2.

Thanks for the info Calvin83 ! Could you point me towards the source of your info so I can broaden my education still further, please?

https://books.google.com/books?id=WV4zAQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA5&dq=Fujinon%2050mm&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q&f=false


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Many thanks, Calvin83 Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In today's dollars the Fuji was 2600 new! And that's about what one would cost today if you found a reasonable deal.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quite pricy for sure, I settled for an f2 LTM Fuji. Nice lens, very well made, like most RF lenses.
I just realized I've hardly used it, must get out and shoot.... Sad


PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Quite pricy for sure, I settled for an f2 LTM Fuji. Nice lens, very well made, like most RF lenses.
I just realized I've hardly used it, must get out and shoot.... Sad


I think very very few were made of the superspeed, but I'd love to see some shots from your f/2 Smile


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reviving an old thread.
Did anyone ever find a schematic for the Canon 50mm f1.4 LTM that showed the 6 elements in four groups?
As everyone above has mentioned, the schematic that appears in this discussion thus far is of course incorrect
Tom


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Peter Kitchingman shows it as a classic 6 element/ 4 group double-Gauss. And I have taken several part and can verify that it is.

I seem to remember Neblette, "Photographic lenses", 1965 putting it in with the classic Planar 6/4 group.

https://www.canonrangefinder.org/Canon_50mm.htm

Shows as 6/4.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fiftyonepointsix wrote:
Peter Kitchingman shows it as a classic 6 element/ 4 group double-Gauss. And I have taken several part and can verify that it is.

I seem to remember Neblette, "Photographic lenses", 1965 putting it in with the classic Planar 6/4 group.

https://www.canonrangefinder.org/Canon_50mm.htm

Shows as 6/4.


Many thanks
Tom
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