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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: Comparison shots : Biotar 58/2 1Q & Helios 44-3 58/2 MC |
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nixland wrote:
I just want to share some comparison shots between CZJ Biotar 58/2 1Q & Helios 44-3 58/2 MC.
BIOTAR
HELIOS
BIOTAR
HELIOS
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Let's see some swirly wirly bokeh ... 
BIOTAR
HELIOS
BIOTAR
HELIOS
BIOTAR (I shot this after the Helios and the sunset light was gone so it looked dull compare to Helios shot below)
HELIOS
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
I'll do some shots for CA, flare & sharpness check later
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Lovely samples!
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JohnBee
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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JohnBee wrote:
Wow so similar its almost as though they are the same lens!
Excellent comparison btw. |
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
very, very similar. As one is a copy of another. And very good 
_________________
Canon 5D II-Sony nex 6
Canon L 80-200 f 2.8 - Canon L 135 f2 - Canon FD 135/2.5 convert to EOS - Yashica 50 1.4 ML - Canon FD 50 1.2 - Distagon 35mm 2.8 T AEJ - Minolta MC 24mm f 2.8 - Canon LTM 85 1.9- Canon LTM 85mm 1.9 convert to EOS - Rodenstock Heligon 50 1.9 - Color Skopar 50 2.8 & MAte Box & filters 4X4
Contax RTS II y Minolta SRT 303 - 28-135 3.6 Tokina - Minolta MD 45 f2.0 - Minolta Zoom 80 200 4.5 (Leica)
www.isgleasphoto.com
The life is more easy with this forum .... |
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Thanks for the comments.
Just got time this afternoon to compare the flare handling of each lens.
First, the sun in the frame.
BIOTAR
HELIOS
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Still sun in the frame with vertical orientation.
BIOTAR
HELIOS
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
The sun outside the frame .... well, not completely I think
BIOTAR
HELIOS
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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revers
Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 574
Location: In the country just north of Toronto Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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revers wrote:
I think the Helios has an edge on the Biotar.
_________________
Ron
Olympus OM-D E-M5, 14-42 & 45/1.8.
Panasonic G1, GF1, 14-45, 45-200 & various legacy lenses.
Canon S5, Sony 1.7 Tele-converter & Raynox DCR 150 Macro converter. |
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Jeff Zen
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 262
Location: Northwest USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Jeff Zen wrote:
I think Ron is right! I like the Helios. |
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francotirador
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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francotirador wrote:
If you just have to find correct version. There is much difference between them.
_________________
Canon 5D II-Sony nex 6
Canon L 80-200 f 2.8 - Canon L 135 f2 - Canon FD 135/2.5 convert to EOS - Yashica 50 1.4 ML - Canon FD 50 1.2 - Distagon 35mm 2.8 T AEJ - Minolta MC 24mm f 2.8 - Canon LTM 85 1.9- Canon LTM 85mm 1.9 convert to EOS - Rodenstock Heligon 50 1.9 - Color Skopar 50 2.8 & MAte Box & filters 4X4
Contax RTS II y Minolta SRT 303 - 28-135 3.6 Tokina - Minolta MD 45 f2.0 - Minolta Zoom 80 200 4.5 (Leica)
www.isgleasphoto.com
The life is more easy with this forum .... |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6950
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:57 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Good comparison.
Nothing much between them. The 44-3 may have slightly more swilies going on in one of the samples.
I suspect the Biotar may be sharper, but I cannot judge at this size.
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Thanks for the comments.
By the way, below is the front element coating color of each lens.
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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pat donnelly
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Posts: 666
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: Great work! |
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pat donnelly wrote:
Helios is an excellent example! Better than the original.
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---------------------------------
EP-1, E-410, E-300, D100, D1,
C-Mt: 25mm 1.9, 75mm 1.4, 75mm 1.3, 75mm 1.9, Ultra wides, one inch sensor, 20+ c-mount zooms
OM 350mm f2.8, Nikkor 180 f2.8, Exa 180 f2.8,
Tamrons: 90mm f2.5, 500mm f8 x3, 135 f2.5, 200 f3.5, 24mm 2.5, 28mm 2.5 x8,
FD 500mm mirror lens |
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Laurentiu Cristofor
Joined: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 524
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Laurentiu Cristofor wrote:
| nixland wrote: |
Thanks for the comments.
By the way, below is the front element coating color of each lens.
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Looks like my copy - mine is from '53 and has some coating damage, but I don't see any issue with photos. It has a semi-auto aperture that needs to be cocked before shooting (spring mechanism), right? I didn't do any testing like you did, but from casual use, I couldn't tell the difference between this and the Helios-44. I was surprised that I liked the build of the Helios more than the build of this Zeiss.
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a.s. pearson
Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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a.s. pearson wrote:
I will say I <3 the flaring 100% more from the Helios! Thanks for posting this!
_________________
MF Lenses:
Nikon Series E 50mm f1.8 pancake
Vivitar Series 1 35-85mm f2.8
Vivitar 85-205mm f3.8
Helios 44m 58mm f2 x2 |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2539
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
That Helios is a lens from 1993 with much more modern coatings than the Biotar. Explains the difference in flare and slightly warmer rendering.
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pentaxian |
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Rigel
Joined: 26 Nov 2015
Posts: 121
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Rigel wrote:
| D1N0 wrote: |
| That Helios is a lens from 1993 with much more modern coatings than the Biotar. Explains the difference in flare and slightly warmer rendering. |
It does, however, not explain the better rendering and better sharpness of the Helios ... and FWIW .. my 44-3 shows exactly the same type of behaviour compared to my Biotar "red T" ... ergo, it is a tad better in every respect. |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1663
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
How do both compare with the konica hexanon 57/1,4 and Minolta MC 58/1,4 lenses (aka japanese Biotar). |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
Posts: 1445
Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
| Rigel wrote: |
| D1N0 wrote: |
| That Helios is a lens from 1993 with much more modern coatings than the Biotar. Explains the difference in flare and slightly warmer rendering. |
It does, however, not explain the better rendering and better sharpness of the Helios ... and FWIW .. my 44-3 shows exactly the same type of behaviour compared to my Biotar "red T" ... ergo, it is a tad better in every respect. |
Contrast + Resolution = 'Sharpness', if I'm remembering my rules of thumb correctly. So a more contrasty, (say better control of flare and veiling glare), coating can provide for better 'sharpness'. Q.E.D. ? So it could be down to more modern coatings, or more accurately, I couldn't rule it out based on the information provided here.
Of course I'm making this argument while looking at something rather obvious - the 'G' on the statues bottom. In terms of delivering contrast, the Biotar appears to be handling flare and glare better than the Helios.
On rendering, I always think of it as a subjective matter, but I could be wrong. |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1663
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
AFAIK, the contrast + acutance + resolving power + flare resistence + nivel of CA = sharpness .
The last is almost always a combo of characteristics of the lens.
Long time ago Sharpness = resolving power.
Not now.
I don't think that exist a lens with "10" un sharpness, because all the designs are compromisos between some corrections of aberrations.
Inside those designs there are one or more of them that like to each of us.
I'm still in love with the Kern Macro Switar 50/1,9 in Alpa mount.
The Helios 44-3 is a very good lens.
A must have |
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gomailbox
Joined: 20 Dec 2021
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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gomailbox wrote:
Thanks a lot for sharing the test results. I would be very hesitant if I saw these before getting Biotar. One thing I saw in many many comments was fact that Helios QC has been arbitrary compared to Biotar. I would be very happy if I was lucky enough to get an offer for a guaranteed good copy. Apparently you are. Very happy with you. |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6950
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I had and have a few Helios lenses over the years and have never seen a bad one. I usually buy the KMZ ones.
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Casual attendance these days |
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Zamo
Joined: 08 Feb 2019
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Zamo wrote:
| martinsmith99 wrote: |
| I had and have a few Helios lenses over the years and have never seen a bad one. I usually buy the KMZ ones. |
I once ended up with three 44-2, one 44-3, one 44-4 and a M, all KMZ. Compared all of them at infinity, only for color and sharpness (no flare resistance or CA or bokeh, etc). The 44-3, supposedly sharper than previous ones, was the worst of them all. Probably a bad copy or a manipulated one. The 44-2 and the 44-4 were indistinguishable. The M maybe, being very picky, slightly worse. Colors in the 44-4 slightly warmer. But differences were minimal, except for the less sharp 44-3. A pity I don't have the pictures anymore (I clean up disk space once in a while). Now I don't keep any of them, I got tired of the Helios |
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