Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58mm f/2 aluminium. How good is it?

mikel · Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 26 Location: SW Europe

I've been lurking around this lens for a while, and I love the aluminium finish, it looks soo cool. I assume that regarding contrast and flare resistance it will not be up to todays standards, but that doesn't worry me (as contrast can be enhanced by pp, and flare can be reasonably avoided). On the other hand, copies for sale on ebay usually have this T on it, which I think stands for some kind of quality coating (at least for this lens times' standards), even if it is not the famed CZ - not Jena - T*

Anyway, my biggest worries about this lens is regarding sharpness, more so, sharpness wide open. I have read that the russian copy of the lens, the Helios 58/2, is rather soft wide open. Is this the case of the original too?

It is inevitable that I will compare this lens with the SMC Takumar 55 f2 that I have, which I love. For my taste and needs the Tak is superb at f2. Will the Biotar deceive me if I get it? I'm always referring to the sharpness issue, btw.

Aperture ring seems to be continous (with no stop for each aperture value). Is it of the preset kind? Or is it the way its implemented in the Industar 50-2?

Thanks in advance!

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Not soft.

no-X · Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject:

Post-war T Biotars are quite contrasty, I'd say quite close to the later MC lenses, especially if you find a lens, which is free of cleaning marks (hard job, majority of them have them... but a few of them doesn't harm lens performance). Front lens element is embedded quite deeply, which helps to keep good contrast and flare resistance.

Biotar is very sharp stopped down, but at f/2 isn't as good as Pancolars or late Takumars. However, it's much sharper then contemporary lenses.

If you aren't sure, buy a Helios 44-2 firstly and decide upon it's performance.

mikel · Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 26 Location: SW Europe

Attila, you have both the Helios and the Biotar 58 f/2. How do they compare each other?

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

mikel · Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 26 Location: SW Europe

Thanks for your input Attila! I think I'm leaning towards the Biotar, its beauty is really catching me...

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Neil · Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 2

Hi,

First post, sometime lurker.

I have an old 17 blade Biotar and it is my favourite lens right now.

On my IST*D with flange adapter it loses infinity focus but is enough for portraits. I do not like it as much for anything beyond 15 meters or so (when using the non-flange adapter).

Oops, tried posting an image.

Esox lucius · Expire: 2011-11-18

Here are some samples, original size, digital and film. Photoset includes both the 12-bladed postwar design as well as the 17-bladed pre-war design. Lens used is indicated in tags.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mureena/sets/72157607632795663/

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Helios-44 is so cheap that you can afford many of them even if you already own a Biotar Wink

mikel · Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 26 Location: SW Europe

Thanks Relayer for the info you provided, it was very interesting.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

mikel · Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 26 Location: SW Europe

Finally a Helios 44-2 is coming home. I got it for a total of 20€ (lens for 6€ + delivery 14€). I'm so eager to play with a preset aperture lens...

Snake Charmer · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar f2 58mm

Hi, I have just joined your forum and would like to ask about a lens I recently acquired. Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar f2 58mm.

My lens is coated but does not carry the 'T' designation. I have read that this is what the T means. I have also read that the T stood for Twelve shutter blades. (Mine has Ten)

This is very new to me and I see that the aperture is set by pussing back the f.stop ring. Rotating the ring to the required setting, and then cocking the shutter open, by rotating the ring fully to the right. On taking the picture the shutter closes to the selected aperture and remains closed. In effect you need to cock the camera and then the lens. Or the reverse.

At the moment I do not have an M42 body.

I do have a Black Nikkormat FT3 and a silver Nikon FM however. Would it be a good idea to get a converter for my Nikon's, or perhaps look for a more appropriate body, say a Pentax S1 or Spotmatic etc.

Thanks in anticipation.

PS. apologies for the image quality I used a Canon G10 as best I could.

no-X · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject:

Your lens is the semi-auto Biotar. These semi-auto lenses can be recognized according to the wavy aperture ring. Pre-set version doesn't have it.

The semi-auto Biotar (or Tessar) isn't optimal for DSLR because of it's complicated aperture system.

T means, that the lens has such coating, that transfers more than 80% of the light. There are 3 M42 Biotar models:

1. manual
2. pre-set
3. semi-auto

1. Manual version is pre-war, however the last model was manufactured even shortly after war. There are three models, all of them has 17 aperture blades:

a) 5,8cm, black, T
b) 5,8cm, silver, T
c) 58mm, silver, T

2. Pre-set version is the best for DSLR. There are different models:

a) non-T, 10 blades
b) T, 10 blades (not very common)
c) T, 12 blades

I heard about T version with 17 blades, but I have never seen it.

3. semi-auto is never T marked and it has always 10 blades

Snake Charmer · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar F2 58mm

Thank you for the information on my lens.

I apologise for my stupidity. Iam just begining to realise that your website and forum is focussed on the use of manual focus lenses as fitted to a modern DSLR and here I am asking about film cameras.

Regards

Chris

no-X · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject:

No, many members use both film and digital cameras Very Happy

PaulC · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318

Snake charmer, I think what you have there is a "preset" lens. The idea is that you can choose the aperture you want by pushing and twisting, as you say. You can then open the aperture wide while you focus and when you are ready to shoot a quick twist of the aperture ring will bring it up hard against whatever stop you previously set.

It is quite a useful feature as it allows you to meter the light, manually set your f-stop, then open up to focus without losing the setting. It is also useful if you are using a manual lens with studio flash.

When other methods of automatically setting the aperture came in, the old pre-set system faded out.

I hope that helps.

And, yes, lots of us do shoot film as well as digital. There are separate sections for film, digital and even old rangefinder and folding cameras.

Snake Charmer · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar f2-16 58mm

Hi Paulc. Thank you for your reply.

Just to be precise.

On my lens you are able to select the required aperture by pushing back the fstop ring and rotating it to the desired fstop. The ring springs forward and locks the aperture at your desired setting.

If for instance you select f5.6, the iris will show the shutter leaves stopped down to f5.6. Then you rotate the fstop ring clockwise aginst the pressure of a spring and it locks the shutter fully open.

You would then focus, and when you press the shutter release and actuate the small pin at the back of the lens, the shutter blades snap shut to the fstop you have selected. I suppose, just before the focal plane shutter opens.

To take the next picture at the same aperture you would just rotate the ring clockwise again where the iris locks open until you are ready to shoot. I can see no reason why I cant "Cock the lense" use the camera meter, and then select the desired aperture...... Yes I just tried it....without a camera body of course.

I suppose in order to use the lens this way I would be limited to use an M42 screw camera, where the pin can fire the lense. I am curious to know what the thing will sound like when taking a picture.

Rangefinders are of some interest to me. In fact you might not believe this but - this lens came with a Fujica 35EE that I bought for £21.00. The camera's fab too.

Cheers, Chris

PaulC · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318

Interesting. I haven't come across one quite like that. It sounds as if it might be the final transition between manual preset lenses and the auto/manual system where you can set the aperture without stopping down and the pin automatically closes it at the when the shot is taken.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Snake Charmer · Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar f2-16 58mm

I guess I am looking for one of these...........