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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: Biotar, Helios, Primoplan compared |
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Pancolart wrote:
I was primarily interested in bokeh, sharpness and colors. This is what i have put in my bag:
CZJ Biotar 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Görlitz Primoplan 1.9/58mm #: 1223508 (coated light gold)
Meyer-Optik Görlitz Primoplan 1.9/58mm #: 1338813 (coated light blue)
Conditions:
White balance the same for all (cloudy). ISO 400. Canon 5D Mkii. All lenses clean and in good shape, Helios unused. Primoplan blue and Biotar with hood. Distance to object isn't fixed but approximate since hand-held. No post production, just resize.
Remarks:
Average Exposure time for Biotar & Helios is 1/1250s (it's funny that 1:1.8 compared to 1:2.0 makes nearly no difference) . 1/800s for both Primoplans.
Sample photos:
Differences really are smaller then i thought. But please let me know what do you think.
CZJ Biotar 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
Primoplan 1.9/58mm (coated light gold)
Primoplan 1.9/58mm (coated light blue)
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Last edited by Pancolart on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I have removed second sample photo from each to make comparison easier.
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Biotar, Helios, Primoplan compared |
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dimitrygo wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
Remarks:
Average Exposure time for both Biotar designs is 1/1250s (it's funny that 1:1.8 compared to 1:2.0 makes nearly no difference) . 1/800s for both Primoplans.
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Helios-77M is indeed 6 elements/4 groups design but it is not Biotar. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Detail check. Sadly with Helios focus is placed a bit behind center rose. Biotar and Helios are sharper then both Primoplans though i love Primoplan softness more.
CZJ Biotar 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
Primoplan 1.9/58mm (coated light gold)
Primoplan 1.9/58mm (coated light blue)
_________________
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The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Dimitry: thank you. Changed description.
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The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Gurdie
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Finland
Expire: 2013-02-20
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Gurdie wrote:
In my eyes, very subtle differences. My favourite is the light blue coated Primotar. IMO, the sharpness is not an issue with a shot like this.
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Give me two hours a day of activity, and I'll take the other twenty-two in dreams.
― Salvador Dali
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 6943
Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I like the Biotar and Russian lenses so it's no surprise that I prefer the 1st 2.
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Joosep
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 305
Location: Estonia, Tallinn
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Joosep wrote:
Helios winner in my eyes.
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Suble differences, yes. Here some black and white samples. WB was set on auto when shooting, so i removed colors to emphasize bokeh. Helios gets you around 20cm closer to the subject then other three bytheway.
CZJ Biotar 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
Primoplan 1.9/58mm (coated light gold)
Primoplan 1.9/58mm (coated light blue)
_________________
---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS
Last edited by Pancolart on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fish4570
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 4514
Location: At the confluence of the Locust Fork of the Warrior River and Black Creek, Alabama
Expire: 2012-03-21
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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fish4570 wrote:
Primoplan gold is best among the BW shots; I like the Biotar on the color.
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I chase Light
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7554
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
| Gurdie wrote: |
| IMO, the sharpness is not an issue with a shot like this. |
+1. I prefer the Primoplan too.
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Biotar, Helios, Primoplan compared |
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no-X wrote:
| dimitrygo wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
Remarks:
Average Exposure time for both Biotar designs is 1/1250s (it's funny that 1:1.8 compared to 1:2.0 makes nearly no difference) . 1/800s for both Primoplans.
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Helios-77M is indeed 6 elements/4 groups design but it is not Biotar. |
Helios lenses are Biotar copies. Helios-77 was only a recalculation, which took new optical materials into account (glass with higher refraction, which allowed slightly shorter focal length).
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(almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Biotar, Helios, Primoplan compared |
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dimitrygo wrote:
| no-X wrote: |
| dimitrygo wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
Remarks:
Average Exposure time for both Biotar designs is 1/1250s (it's funny that 1:1.8 compared to 1:2.0 makes nearly no difference) . 1/800s for both Primoplans.
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Helios-77M is indeed 6 elements/4 groups design but it is not Biotar. |
Helios lenses are Biotar copies. Helios-77 was only a recalculation, which took new optical materials into account (glass with higher refraction, which allowed slightly shorter focal length). |
Helios lenses are Planars. Helios-40 for sure not Biotar, all other Helioses that can be found here http://www.zenitcamera.com/catalog/lenseslist.html are Planars but not Biotars.
Helios-77 was always considered as a replacement for Helios-44 but not in terms of disign evolution. Rumors say its design is similar to Meyer/Pentacon. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Is it just me, or is the Biotar bokeh smoother than the others ?
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rappelbums
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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rappelbums wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
| Is it just me, or is the Biotar bokeh smoother than the others ? |
That made me wonder, too.Which Biotar did you use? How many blades? Coating? |
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Misha_M
Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Misha_M wrote:
The differences are slight, but in my eyes the Helios seems a bit sharper than the Biotar, and both of those are a little better than the Primoplans.
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Tair 11 133 f/2.8 1958
Jupiter 9 85 f/2 1959
Helios 44M 58 f/2 1978
Helios 44-2 58 f/2 1977
Helios 44 (13 blades) 1959
Helios 77M4 50 f/1.8
Zenitar-M 50 f/1.7 1986
Industar-61 L\Z 50 f/2.8
Helios 40-2, 85 f/1.5 1974 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
The Primoplans show some residual spherical aberration, that results in a soft glow that may be pleasing for female portraits.
I think Biotar confirms itself as a top class lens, one step above the others. The dimensionality and the bokeh are superb - which is in
line with my personal experience with the lens.
Helios is similar in contrast to the Biotar, but gives harder results. This also is in line with my personal experience.
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