Basic Info on Contax Mounts

KEO · Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 775 Location: USA

As I've begun to delve into old Zeiss lenses I've encountered a lot of references to Contax cameras, and it seems to be a significantly larger subject than I anticipated. There are Contax rangefinder lenses, Kiev/Contax lenses, Contax/Yashica lenses, Contax G lenses...it's a little overwhelming to sort them all out.

Is anyone willing to give me a brief rundown of different Contax mounts? Is the Russian Kiev/Contax mount the same as the Contax rangefinder mount?

I see custom-made adapters seem to be popular for the older Contax lenses. Is this still the way to go in 2019? Which Contax-mount lenses are "the best?"

Thank you in advance with gratitude!

Oldhand · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:10 pm Post subject:

There are many more knowledgable people than myself who will contribute for sure, but here is the little that I know.
Contax rangefinder mount and Kiev RF mount and Nikon RF mount are the same as far as I know.
The Contax SLR mounts were M42 at first, then the Contax/Yashica bayonet.
Which is best?
Many great lenses in all mounts.
One observation of mine is that my experience with Russian lenses has been happiest with the Kiev/Contax from an optical point of view. They have been better than other mounts optically.
Cheers
Tom

KEO · Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 775 Location: USA

kansalliskala · Expire: 2016-12-30

Contax/Yashica mount can easily be used on many digital cameras like EOS. Zeiss lenses are expensive but Yashica and third party lenses cheap but still good lenses.

Contax/Kiev can only be used on those film cameras and some mirrorless cameras (not all). Adapters are usually hand made and / or expensive. Some russian lenses like Jupiter 8 and 11 are really cheap but Zeiss and Nikon lenses can be extremely expensive because of the age and rarity.

DConvert · Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 921 Location: Essex UK

fiftyonepointsix · Joined: 30 Apr 2017 Posts: 292

The Nikon S-Mount is mechanically compatible with the Contax/Kiev mount, BUT the rangefinder calibration is 51.6mm for the Nikon and 52.4mm for the Contax/Kiev. If you look closely at the Nikon mount it rotates ~260 degrees from 3ft to infinity, the Contax/Kiev rotates ~270degrees. The thread pitch of the helical is the same between the two.

https://cameraderie.org/threads/inexpensive-adapter-nikon-rf-to-leica-thread-mount-70.48673/

Oddly Enough: I bought an inexpensive Chinese Contax to Leica Thread Mount adapter for under $70 custom made to work with external mount lenses and internal mount lenses. The adapter rotates 270degrees for 3ft to infinity, external mount Contax/Kiev lenses focus perfectly. I have a 1932 13.5cm F4 CZJ Sonnar on it now. The RF Cam moves 1:1 with the Internal Mount, meaning it works with my internal mount S-Mount lenses. One point: I had to rotate the external mount of the adapter to line up with the Contax mount lenses. 3 set screws and a few minutes to solve the issue.

paulhofseth · Expire: 2018-06-28

A brief guide. Details can be gathered from websites like "Dresden cameras" etc + a number of books. Thieles lists of Zeiss prototypes gives the best overview of Zeiss optics designs and the mounts they were made for.

Type 1 Zeiss Contax: The differences between Nikon S and early Contax mounts have been described above.

Type 2 Zeiss (Jena) Contax\M42: At the end of the 1930ies Zeiss in Dresden started to design a one eyed reflex camera in order to compete with Exakta. In 1941 they patended early drafts, but the entire works were destroyed during the war, so the "Syntax" transformed into the Contax S which was mentioned in september 1946, exhibited in 1948 and sold from 1949 onwards with the M42 threaded lens mount. It could not be called "Pentax" since that name was already trademarked in Dresden. That name was sold to AOC in Japan. Zeiss in Jena and a number of other factories made lenses that fit the Contax, its East zone competitors Practiflex and Practica and the many others who entered the market. That mount is normally not called a Contax mount, but either M42 or sometimes Pentax.

Most, but not all of the ancient optics are collectors items more than users, but they may also appeal due to their pictorial peculiarities.

Type 2 Zeiss-Ikon-VoigtlÃ¤nder\M42Somewhat nearer to this century, Zeiss in the West zone of Germany launched its opto-mechanical flagship Contarex. That mount is totally different. The Zeiss- owned VoigtlÃ¤nder factory launched its Icarex which eventually go an M42 mount in addition to its bayonet mount. Hence, for a short period more recent Zeiss (west) labelled M42 optics were marketed although for instance the famous negative-front lens Zeiss- Ultron was a VoigtlÃ¤nder product (and the later ones were a different design).

Type 3 Zeiss Contax\ Yashica A while after Zeiss closed its camera production it joined forces with Yashica in Japan in 1972 in order to utilize Japanese skills in camera electronics and precision production at lower costs than at home. Yashica had digested Tomiyoka and produced its own optics, but Zeiss had already designed lenses for a "Contaflex 725" and this set was equipped with Yashica mounts and fitted to the new Porsche styled "Contax RTS" in 1974. The optical designs were routinely updated and the German-Japanese cooperation continued when Kyocera took over Yashica in 1982 with new camera models and lens designs. Production continued up to the early 2000nds when a digital model with "N mount" took over. The C\Y mount has a longer distance from the film plane than the Canon EF mount and hence allows easy adaptation.

Type 4 Zeiss Contax G (Yashica)Kyocera In 1994 the autofocus-rangefinder Contax G was launched. Yashica\Kyocera was still the production base, but the optics were designed by Zeiss in Oberkochen and have similar brilliance and coverage as the C\Y mount lenses. The Gmount has no ordinary focussing helix but requires a clunky adapter to focus. Also, the distance from lens flange to film plane means that Contax-G can only be adapted to the newer, slimmer mirrorless bodies.

p.

kansalliskala · Expire: 2016-12-30

justtorchit · Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 269 Location: St. Louis, MO

Firstly, what camera were you looking to use these lenses with? Also, I would ask, what do you prize most in your lenses? Image quality? Size? Usability? As you know there are always trade offs. I have been on a size kick recently, trying to shrink my kit without taking a hit in image quality or usability.

I shoot with the Nikon Z Mirrorless cameras so I'm always using these via adapters. I too have just begun looking into Contax glass more seriously so forgive my lack of knowledge though I think paulhofseth provided an excellent rundown.

The Planar 85/1.4 popped up in my local shop and as soon as I put my hands on it, I wanted it. It's a great lens. It's not too big, though it's quite dense. Smaller than my AF counterparts though. The shop also has the 50/1.4 and 28/2.8 which I played around with and found to be impressive (though the shop is no substitute for extensive use in the field). I bought a C/Y > NZ adapter and within a few days, I was up and running. I took the 85/1.4 out on a job two nights ago, shooting a political watch party under extremely low lighting and it handled very well.

Here is one of the images we ran of one of the local candidates being questioned by the press after the results were posted:

One thing to note with the C/Y mount is you will often seen "AEJ, AEG, MMJ, MMG" acronyms accompanying a particular copy. There's a discussion here (and many other places on the web) clarifying what this means. http://forum.mflenses.com/whats-the-difference-between-contax-mm-and-ae-lenses-t26055.html Since I am only adapting the lenses, the key difference has been the shape of the aperture for me. AE lenses will have a 'ninja-star' or 'saw-blade' shaped aperture between f/2-f/4 or so. Evidently MM lenses are rounded all the way through. The effects can be seen in the above posted image.

I have some limited experience also with the Contax G 90/2.8 via an adapter on a Fuji mirrorless. That lens was lovely and a good performer but ultimately it didn't fully resonate with me so I sold it. Once there is a proper G adapter for the Nikon Z mount, I would love to get my hands on the 21/2.8.

KEO · Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 775 Location: USA

Thanks for the help, friends. This clears things up a lot - enough that I know where to start asking more questions anyway.

FWIW I'll be adapting to Fuji X-mount.

I'm primarily interested in the old, old rangefinder lenses. It's certainly good to know about the C/Y and newer glass though.

The specific lens that got me digging into this topic was an old CZJ 180mm Sonnar 2.8.

frenched · Expire: 2014-06-17

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

I was going to add that though many of the Rollei HFT opticals are identical to the Zeiss Contax C/Y, the mounts are significantly different and the cheapest and easiest systems (via Canon EF) are not able to go to infinity on DSLR without taking the original mount off of the lens, which means each lens must be adapted separately if you actually intend to use them without significant fuss time. The adapters for infinity on these can be reversed as it is nondestructive but isn't something I would recommend you try in the field. Mirrorless adapting, though, is not an issue.

paulhofseth · Expire: 2018-06-28

It is a matter of definitions; I have perhaps widened the list of Zeiss Contax mounts too much by introducing the Icarex . It is a camera with lenses designed by the ZIV company owned by the Zeiss foundation and it has the original Contax M42 mount. It is not, however, called Contax.

Narrowly defined, even the Practica siblings and their many Zeiss-Jena lenses could be excluded from the Contax family tree.

I have near zero knowledge & experience of Rollei-badged optics -except for the excellent lenses of the little Rollei 35. But i understand that even if Rollei took over VoigtlÃ¤nder names, the VoigtlÃ¤nder designed, Zeiss badged Icarex Ultron was quite different from the later Rollei versions.

p.

justtorchit · Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 269 Location: St. Louis, MO

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

KEO · Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 775 Location: USA

pdccameras · Expire: 2014-08-11

HI Keo,

There's been some great info shared in this post. Here is what I hope is a little more.

You mentioned you are most interested in the older RF Contax mount lenses.
You also mentioned that you are interested in using these lenses on a mirrorless digital camera.

This means you can choose from the original Carl Zeiss lenses made originally for the Contax I, Contax II, IIa and Contax III, IIIa machines, as well as the Kiev, Nikon S-mount rangefinder cameras, and the modern Voigtlander/Cosina RF units. Tthese lenses are often referred to as Contax RF, or S-mount lenses.

You can shoot these fine classics on your mirrorless without any big problems. I use these kind of lenses on a Sony E-mount mirrorless.

Even though there were minor differences between how these lenses coupled to the rangefinder mechanisms of the specific cameras they were originally designed for, you are using through-the-lens focusing on your mirrorless, so those minor differences won't matter, and do not require separate kinds of adapters. With one caveat.

The original normal lenses for all the Contax RF or S-mount lenses did not have focusing mounts built into the lenses. The focus helical was built into the internal lens mount on the camera. The cameras had a separate external lens mount for the wider and longer focus lenses (eg. 35mm, 85mm, 135mm etc.). This means you will need the kind of adapter with a focus mechanism for your normal lenses and the simpler, external mount adapter for the other lenses.

Pictured below are a few of the Contax RF or S-mount lenses from my collection, and the E-mount adapter used for them.

I hope this helps!

Best,

Paul

Picture#1: From L to R: Zeiss 3.5cm f/2.8 Biogon, Keiv Jupiter 8-M 50mm f/2, Zeiss 5cm f/2 Sonnar, Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar - 2 Sony E-mount adapters with focus helical. The chrome one has both internal and external mounts.

Picture#2: From L to R: Nikkor P. C. 8.5cm f/2, Cosina/Voigtlander S Apo Lanthar 85mm f/3.5, Zeiss 13.5cm f/4 Sonnar, Nikkor Q. C. 135mm f/4, Nikkor W 3.5cm f/2.5, Sonnar 8.5 cm f/2 with external E-mount adapter with no focus helical

kiddo · Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1273

Sorry, but the later Rollei Planar/Voigtlaender Color-Ultron is definitely an Ultron (7/6) design derived from the Voigtlaender "Zeiss"-branded Ultron with the concave front element with enhanced front group; i.e. it's an Ultron which is just named "Planar".
Even the Contax (Yashica) Planar is actually an Ultron 7/6 design but a different one with enhanced back group.[/quote]

I've been wondering how do Planar c/y compare with the Voigt. Ultron (prominent) , as I've been reading such nice things about the Ultron . Adapting it to Sony's FF wouldn't be easy, isn't it?

pdccameras · Expire: 2014-08-11

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

kiddo · Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1273

Sorry, I was referring to the 1.4 Planar ,not that much about sharpness,but the bokeh

justtorchit · Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 269 Location: St. Louis, MO

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

fiftyonepointsix · Joined: 30 Apr 2017 Posts: 292

David: The "S-Mount" accommodates both Internal Mount 5cm (51.6mm) lenses and external mount lenses. The internal mount lenses rely on the camera's mount for focus. External mount lenses have there own helical, the mechanism translates the focus to the rotation of the camera's helical. The main difference between Contax and Nikon is the amount of rotation used to translate the focus from lens to camera. However- there are tolerances in the mechanical aspects of the mounts that might lead to filing down mounting prongs "here and there" between Contax, Nikon, and Kiev.