What's the difference between Contax MM and AE lenses?

igottofly · Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 28 Location: Berlin

Hi guys,

i think this one might be easy to answer by many of you. Anyway I couldn't find the answer searching the forum and web.

So: Apart from MM lenses having a chip for program and shutter priority mode on CONTAX, is there any other difference between them and AE lenses? I mean, why do people prefer them to the AE version? It's just because of that (which mean they own a contax body)?

Thanks!

Cobalt60 · Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 544 Location: Central Europe

A chip? I would rather call that a "pin" ... and this indeed is the main official difference, the "MM" (multi mode) lenses have been introduced with the Contax 159MM which has been the first body supporting "P" mode. The AE lenses "only" support aperture priority and manual (whereas MM lenses can support shutter priority (and "program"), too).
Apart from that there are constructional differences, too - for example the "ninja" iris on earlier AE lenses ...

alex · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 561 Location: UK

Paul · Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 173 Location: Hamburg-Germany

you need MM lenses for full program automatic support.

You can see if it's an MM lens by the coloured f-stop number (mostly f16).

alex · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 561 Location: UK

aoleg · Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1389 Location: Berlin, DE

There are a few things that were different between at least some AE and MM lenses. I had AE and MM Planars 85/1.4, and the AE one used to have that 'ninja star' bokeh at f/2-2.5 because of the shape of its aperture blades. The MM version has regular blades producing bokeh in the shape of octagonals. Also, I believe the coatings were slightly different, with MM version delivering slightly higher contrast.

I've also heard that some other lenses (Distagon 28/?) were recalculated, improving corner performance and being as sharp wide open as the AE lens being stopped down one aperture stop. Didn't try it myself though.

igottofly · Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 28 Location: Berlin

Thanks for all the input!

I believe that probably it has became a myth that MM are better, even though maybe one cannot tell... Wink

If its just for the automatic programs, I don't care cause I'm using manual.

The bokeh difference, I think I've heard before too, yes.

Would love to know further if those things aoleg mention (coating, and recalculation of distagons), have been verified by someone...

BTW, Aren't they made in different countries too? The AE are German, and the MM Japanese?

Cobalt60 · Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 544 Location: Central Europe

You can find all 4 flavours ...

AEG
AEJ
MMG
and
MMJ

although I am not sure if this is true for any lens ...

igottofly · Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 28 Location: Berlin

hexi · Expire: 2011-11-18

G stands for German and J for Japan made i guess.

That said i have also two versions. One Planar T* 50mm and lately i bought a 2.8 / 85on ebay that was showed on pix as AE, but in fact it was a MM.

The only difference i noticed for the moment is that the MM version has a different lens color than the AE Planar, but that's just me and its on sight. I'll see better on the pictures.

aoleg · Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1389 Location: Berlin, DE

Right now I am holding two Contax Sonnars 85/2.8. One is MMJ, another one is AEG. They are two different lenses! The appearance is different (I'll post a side by side picture later; the MM has a significantly wider focusing ring); mechanical construction is also very different; the AEG version is physically a few mm longer than MMJ. Coatings are entirely different - different colors of reflections, and the MMJ coatings are visibly more effective, reflecting less light than AEG ones.

In real use, differences in images are subtle at most. I can't tell for now whether the MM version is sharper (it does not seem so from the first glance) or more contrasty (this is could be thanks to improved coatings).

hexi · Expire: 2011-11-18

igottofly · Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 28 Location: Berlin

aoleg · Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1389 Location: Berlin, DE

There are pictures of AE and MM versions of the Sonnar 85/2.8 in the Marketplace: http://forum.mflenses.com/selling-off-my-zeiss-contax-rollei-voigtlander-lenses-t26776.html

Hope Klaus will not mind if I re-post them here Smile

(Free advertising BTW, as some of them are still for sale). Note how different the coatings are, and how the barrel shapes are also different.

AE:

MM:

[/b]

Keysersoze27 · Expire: 2012-12-24

I know it's an old thread but I just realized that my Sonnar 2.8/85 is a AEJ with s/n 6581xxx BUT it has the same barrel as the MM shown here and the same green coating .

It does not have the usual MM indicators (green f22 & chrome/silver mount color) but has the same mount design as the MM here, and same fonts style on the front...

It must be a transitional lens from AE to MM Confused

-----

Update: Apparently all AEJ look like the MM version.... the difference appears to be only on the AEG ...

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

For some lenses there is an optical difference between AE and MM versions, with the MM having been improved in the corners and wide open.
Notably:

- Distagon 2.8/25
- Distagon 2.8/28
- Sonnar 2.8/135

The above lenses have been confirmed by Zeiss to have been optically improved with the MM version.

There are other lenses that are rumoured to have been improved in the MM version, but have not been confirmed by Zeiss. These include:

- Distagon 1.4/35 (I tried both - false rumour in my opinion)
- Distagon 2.8/35 (I tried both - false rumour in my opinion)
- Planar 1.4/50 (I tried both - false rumour in my opinion)
- Planar 1.4/85 (I tried both - false rumour in my opinion)
- Planar 2/100 (I tried both - true rumour in my opinion)
- Planar 2/135 (I tried both - false rumour in my opinion)
- Sonnar 2.8/180 (I did not try both so I can not compare)

Finally, there is at least a couple of lenses that were surely optimized after the switch to MM.
These are the

- Planar 1.7/50
which has certainly been improved optically sometimes around serial number 8x - I have tested several examples numbered 5x, 6x, 7x and 8x, and the improvement with 8x is impressive

- Planar 2/135
which has been completely redesigned for the Planar Anniversary version (after the introduction of MM), because at the time of the Anniversary, a new law prohibited the use of some materials like lead in the optical glass mixture - this forced the Zeiss engineers to redesign the original optical scheme (by Glatzel or Glatzel's team) in order for the new calculations to support the use of different glass.
So we know that the Anniversary edition of the Planar 2/135 is different - what we don't know though is if it's better or worse than the original version...

Keyser, only a few lenses had the barrel modified between the AE and MM versions; amongst these, the Sonnar 180 and Tele-Tessar 200.
The Sonnar 85 barrel was never modified and it's identical in all version (I have all four versions of the lens, AEG, AEJ, MMG and MMJ).
But this should not be a concern for you, there is no optical difference between the AE and MM versions of the lens, it is one of the most tried and true optical schemes of Zeiss, and it was never changed.

Keysersoze27 · Expire: 2012-12-24

aoleg · Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1389 Location: Berlin, DE

poilu · Expire: 2019-08-29

Keysersoze27 · Expire: 2012-12-24

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

I'll stick with the older ones then, I hate purple fringing! Shrek green fringing is fine though Very Happy

AhamB · Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany

Keysersoze27 · Expire: 2012-12-24

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Guys, what counts is that optically there is no change between AEG, AEJ, MMG, MMJ.
I have the four of them, I have verified that.
Who cares if the barrel has a ridge or not?
_

AhamB · Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany