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Auto Yashinon Tomioka vs Cosinon-S (55mm f/1.2)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Auto Yashinon Tomioka vs Cosinon-S (55mm f/1.2) Reply with quote
Yesterday I was 'lucky' to get an Auto Yashinon Tomioka 55mm f/1.2 with quite a good price and was really excited about that. The lens was delivered to me after one day because the seller is in Korea.

The lens looks pretty new, but it has some traces of mold on the rear element. Since I'm using a flanged M42 adapter, the lens can't focus more than 3 m away, but it can be easily fixed because I have some non-flanged adapters at home.

However, against all of my expectation, the lens made very soft photos wide open. I found this lens to have a f/1.2 lens working on my Canon 6D, since the PK mount of my Cosinon-S will be stuck with the mirror, which I don't want to shave. The Cosinon is also soft wide open. I have a FD 55/1.2 SSC at home, too, it's sharper than the Cosinon, but it also can't be used on 6D. So I decided to compare the Yashinon and Cosinon-S.

Here are the lenses:



Wide open test on NEX-6, I used the same shooting conditions and exported the RAW files using same setting (only brightness adjustment)

Yashinon



Cosinon-S



Here are the 100% crop at the center. I compared the lens at f/1.2 and f/2. At f/2, I included a shot with SEL 50mm f/1.8 lens.



Compare to the Cosinon-S, the Yashinon has more contrast, but lower average brightness, and very slightly better in term of contrast at both f-stop. However, it's clearly a loser to SEL 50/1.8.

The Yashinon doesn't deserve to be much more expensive than the Cosinon-S and SEL 50/1.8 (I bought these with same prices). Even though this lens becomes sharper by stopping down, it doesn't make sense to me because I need it for f/1.2, otherwise I have a bulk of good 50/1.4 lenses. Now I'm considering reselling this lens to fund others and find a good 50/1.2 such as Minolta or FD L version. That's really disappointed Sad

Few other photos with the Yashinon on Canon 6D









I'm wondering if this happens because of copy variation or it's a flawed design?

Last edited by Langstrum on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:00 am; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There`s a lot of glow and bloom wide open on these f/1.2 lenses. It can be very nice if used as an effect, but fast lenses above f/1.4 is less interesting for my taste.

Looks like the Cosinon have more creamy bokeh of the two Wink


PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
There`s a lot of glow and bloom wide open on these f/1.2 lenses. It can be very nice if used as an effect, but fast lenses above f/1.4 is less interesting for my taste.

Looks like the Cosinon have more creamy bokeh of the two Wink


I don't like that glow and bloom, too, that's why I'm really disappointed. This Tomioka is very rare and expensive, so I guess it should be great at wide open, but it's not. I need to find a good 50/1.2, which is as good as my FD 85/1.2 L at wide open.

This is a shot I did with my FD 85/1.2 L at wide open, it's sharp and has no glowing effect at all (I just slightly increased the contrast and adjusted the colors)



PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wide open sharpness with this family of lenses is not a strong point, regardless of what brand is on the front. If you want a sharp f/1.2 lens you need to look at mounts other than M42, or be happy with the 1.4 lenses that were made for this mount.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: @mos6502 Reply with quote
"If you want a sharp f/1.2 lens you need to look at mounts other than M42"

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: @mos6502 Reply with quote
radissimo77 wrote:
"If you want a sharp f/1.2 lens you need to look at mounts other than M42"

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There is practically speaking only one f/1.2 lens which was ever designed for the M42 mount. So if you don't like it - you have no other real alternatives in M42. You have to look at other mounts for lenses of that speed.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's WAY more glow and lack of contrast than I'm used to seeing on my Tomioka "Chinon" m42. I'd guess you have some haze somewhere along with the fungus. Search around. There's quite a lot of fantastic wide-open samples.
This was one of my pics @f1.2: https://www.flickr.com/photos/10403737@N03/8286562184/
(The exif reads 1.4 only because my chipped adapter can't show 1.2.)


PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: @mos6502 Reply with quote
radissimo77 wrote:
"If you want a sharp f/1.2 lens you need to look at mounts other than M42"

Question Question Question Question Question Question


I don't have enough experience to verify that but it may be true since I didn't see any M42 f/1.2 lens that is really sharp wide open.
The sharpest that I know so far are Minolta Rokkor, FD L, and Noct-Nikkor.

Last edited by Langstrum on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
That's WAY more glow and lack of contrast than I'm used to seeing on my Tomioka "Chinon" m42. I'd guess you have some haze somewhere along with the fungus. Search around. There's quite a lot of fantastic wide-open samples.
This was one of my pics @f1.2: https://www.flickr.com/photos/10403737@N03/8286562184/
(The exif reads 1.4 only because my chipped adapter can't show 1.2.)


Thank you for the reference, your lens is so sharp, even better than the others that I saw before! I'm also sure that my lens has some haze. I saw traces of cleaning in the internal element, it's not clean, so someone disassembled this lens and cleaned it non-properly. Maybe if someone can do that, the lens will be much better.

I decided to put it on sale.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My copy is a later variation. The glass coating and body aesthetic look more like the Yashinon DS-M than they do yours. Probably was produced very close to the introduction of the DS-M in '73. I imagine that could come into play as well.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your lens does look soft, softer than any of my 1.2 lenses.

SMC Pentax 50/1.2 has a good reputation, but will have mirror issues with your 6D.
The Rokkor 58/1.2 will likely also have issues on your 6D.
OM 50/1.2 might be what you are looking for. OM 55/1.2 also, but more funky bokeh.
X-Fujinon 50/1.2 (Also Porst)
nFD 50/1.2L and older FL 58/1.2, 55/1.2, FD 55/1.2, SSC 55/1.2, SSC 55/1.2 Aspherical(ther is also an AL version but is super rare and pricy)
Konica 57/1.2
Canon 50/1.2 LTM/M39
Nikkor 50/1.2 AIS


PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lenses from that time period are soft wide open, especially the F1.2, F1.4 ones... it's not a 2014 Sigma 50/1.4 or 35/1.4 lens... Wink


PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
doomed-forever wrote:
Lenses from that time period are soft wide open, especially the F1.2, F1.4 ones... it's not a 2014 Sigma 50/1.4 or 35/1.4 lens... Wink

I disagree, not all 1.4 & 1.2 lenses are soft from back then.

Langstrum, do the lenses have any marks at the spots that you would use callipers to open the lens up? I wonder if someone made an error when working on them.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
doomed-forever wrote:
Lenses from that time period are soft wide open, especially the F1.2, F1.4 ones... it's not a 2014 Sigma 50/1.4 or 35/1.4 lens... Wink

I disagree, not all 1.4 & 1.2 lenses are soft from back then.

Not all, but mostly...the biggest part.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
doomed-forever wrote:
Lenses from that time period are soft wide open, especially the F1.2, F1.4 ones... it's not a 2014 Sigma 50/1.4 or 35/1.4 lens... Wink

I disagree, not all 1.4 & 1.2 lenses are soft from back then.

Langstrum, do the lenses have any marks at the spots that you would use callipers to open the lens up? I wonder if someone made an error when working on them.


You're right, not all vintage 1.4, 1.2 lenses are soft, like the FD 85mm f/1.2 L I have, it turned out to be very sharp as the sample I posted here.

I tried to check the lens carefully and disassemble for cleaning but it's very hard from both end, so I gave up. But I'm sure it was opened before because I saw some cleaning traces in the internal element. The fungus must covered both front and rear elements but they were almost cleaned, and I don't think they can damage that much. The problem may be because of the misaligned or hazy internal elements.

I sold this lens, I hope someone can do the professional cleaning and reassembling to restore this gem.

Now I'm aiming for the FD 50/1.2 L, even though it's not as sharp as the FD 85/1.2 wide open, it's among the best 50/1.2 that I've seen.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello,
Your same exact sense and reference desktop images are on Ebay....
You state here that it should have a haze problem on an internal, element, that is misaligned probably and that you tried to open it.

I was about to buy your lense....but worries me that you only state in Ebay that it has a rear element fungus plus you don't elaborate on the extra problems that may have.

In my part of the world at least its not good to sell something with out telling the truth about it....bad karma you know.

Best,


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
MagicTorchRAW wrote:
Hello,
Your same exact sense and reference desktop images are on Ebay....
You state here that it should have a haze problem on an internal, element, that is misaligned probably and that you tried to open it.

I was about to buy your lense....but worries me that you only state in Ebay that it has a rear element fungus plus you don't elaborate on the extra problems that may have.

In my part of the world at least its not good to sell something with out telling the truth about it....bad karma you know.

Best,

Thank you for your interest in my lens, but let me explain few things.

Did you read carefully my post? The only trace visible is on the rear element, as I mentioned in the description. I tried to open and clean it but I gave up because the lens was made more complicated than other. I said it in my post. I didn't clean it, the lens is as what I received. This lens is soft wide open and starts to be sharp at f/2, I described that and showed how buyers can check on my Flickr with samples, especially at f/1.2, then you think that's being dishonest? I'm still taking photos with this lens and uploaded it to the gallery for anyone interested in it can see and evaluate. Isn't it common that they just say a lens is sharp or not but never provide reference photos? I'm selling for users who care about the quality, that's why all the photos I provided are original and at full resolution. I got "sharp" lens from ebay several times and finally got a soft one, so without sample photos, it doesn't make any sense. Do you think they're more honest than me?

I tested this lens right after receiving it. Now I know one reason that made it looks terrible at the first test was because I tested it right away, when it still had moisture inside. Other photos I took recently and when I kept the lens under dry condition, they look better. Now, see the lens that our admin tested before, see how other members appraised for that lens and compare with the photos took by my lens (his lens didn't show any imperfection): http://forum.mflenses.com/tomioka-55mm-f1-2-auto-yashinon-wide-open-t47373.html

and for your convenience, this is the link to my Flickr album, I uploaded more recent shots with this lens, now I'm confident to say that the lens I own is just an average copy, not a deficient one.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/langstrum/sets/72157648894917056/

this image was taken when there was no light in the room, ISO100 1/20 sec, I just made it brighter by RAW adjustment to see more clearly the lens performance.


Others were taken at f/1.2 too







I already sell it with cheap price and get lost because I paid more to buy this lens but it's not as good as I expectd, maybe because my expectation was too high. I just want to find something better and this lens is not a trash, it's still a good one compared to many others, and it has the value for collecting. If I'm dishonest, I should sell it with thousand dollar like others, so what are you complaining here?

Yes, misalignment or haze can be a reason, but I have no way to prove that except disassembling the lens, which I didn't do. I saw something like cleaning marks inside but it never be clear, even can't be captured, and now it's gone. The only exact reference is the real photos, and I provided them, if you don't like it, don't consider it. Regarding price, many other vintage lenses under selling these days are much more terrible, but they still sell it with very high prices, so what is the judgement here??


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello everyone i am new to the forum! i have just Bought a lens - MC Cosinon-S 55mm f1.2 K mount with 55mm filter thread (not written). Havent tested it yet! i bought it for 150$!
1. is it worth ?
2. How good it is?


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Manu wrote:
Hello everyone i am new to the forum! i have just Bought a lens - MC Cosinon-S 55mm f1.2 K mount with 55mm filter thread (not written). Havent tested it yet! i bought it for 150$!
1. is it worth ?
2. How good it is?


Welcome Manu
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