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Anybody familiar with Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 400mm f/6.3?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Anybody familiar with Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 400mm f/6.3? Reply with quote
Hi everybody! Long-time lurker, just joined the forum. Glad to be here.

I'm the happy owner of a Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 135mm f/2.8 preset lens. I love the quality of the bokeh, even though the lens is not overly sharp (especially wide open). As some of you might have experienced with similar old lenses used on digital cameras, when this lens is used at small apertures and there's a fairly bright light source in or near the the frame, a purple spot appears in the middle of the image. (You can read more info clicking on the link at the bottom and then scrolling down to the paragraph that starts with "The biggest down side").

Which brings me to my question for you guys.

Someone in the area is offering for sale a Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 400mm f/6.3. I'm not familiar with this particular model. Does anybody know if this is a preset lens as well? How many blades? How sharp is it? Is the quality of the bokeh as smooth as that of the 135/2.8? Should I expect the same issue with the purple spot appearing when shooting at small apertures? What would be a reasonable price to pay for this lens?

Thanks very much in advance for your help!

EDIT: I can't post the link. Just google "Old glass: Tamron SP 90mm f/2.5 (52B) macro".

Last edited by invisible on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome! I rate this lens as cheap avarage item I wouldn't pay more than 100 USD.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Welcome! I rate this lens as cheap avarage item I wouldn't pay more than 100 USD.

Thank you.

Here are a couple sample photos I took with the 135/2.8 at full aperture:





If the 400/6.5 is of the same quality or better, I will definitely be interested in buying.

Last edited by invisible on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
not expect ever same from a 135mm and a 400mm lens , lot harder to make good 400 than 135mm


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
not expect ever same from a 135mm and a 400mm lens , lot harder to make good 400 than 135mm

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Still, I am hopeful Smile


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The blue spot on the Tamron 90 / 2.5 macro isn't a major issue. Its one of my most used lenses and I have seen the blue spot if I shoot with the sun in the frame. You have to provoke the blue spot, and to be fair there are not many lenses that can shoot with the bright sun in the frame without some kind of flare or other problem showing up.
Apparently the blue spot is caused by a flat rear lens element reflecting on the shiny surface of the sensor,

I can't say that I've lost any shots because of the blue spot, I just change the angle of view / composition slightly and get the sun out of shot. It's that simple in most instances. And the benefits of using a lens as good as the Tamron 90 far outweigh the problems from the rare times you must have the sun in the frame. Possibly the same can be said for the Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 400mm f/5.6 ?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Tokina 400/5.6 is an auto aperture lens, and pretty awful if I remember correctly. The 400/6.3 preset was better, but did have some (correctable) blue and red ca issues. Basically long lenses have improved hugely over the past 20 years or so, so don't expect too much.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
The Tokina 400/5.6 is an auto aperture lens, and pretty awful if I remember correctly. The 400/6.3 preset was better, but did have some (correctable) blue and red ca issues. Basically long lenses have improved hugely over the past 20 years or so, so don't expect too much.

Oops, you're right. The one for sale is the f/6.3 lens, so I assume it's the preset version.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Anybody familiar with Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 400mm f/6.3 Reply with quote
invisible wrote:
Someone in the area is offering for sale a Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 400mm f/6.3. I'm not familiar with this particular model. Does anybody know if this is a preset lens as well? How many blades? How sharp is it? Is the quality of the bokeh as smooth as that of the 135/2.8? Should I expect the same issue with the purple spot appearing when shooting at small apertures? What would be a reasonable price to pay for this lens?

OK, I met with the seller and although I did not buy the lens I did have the chance to take a good look at it, so I'm going to answer a couple of my own questions (just in case someone in the future is looking for info).

This is indeed a preset lens. However, it doesn't have lots of blades like my Tokyo Koki Tele-Tokina 135/2.8. The aperture was jammed/broken and the blades were a big mess (the reason I didn't make an offer for the lens), but you could tell that the lens had somewhere between 6 and 9 blades.

This is a pretty big lens – actually quite long more than anything else, with not a big diameter. It's not heavy for its size – rough estimation would be 600-700 grams, maybe a bit more. It does have a tripod mount. I found it interesting that the back of the lens was a detachable tube – I'm not sure what the point of this was. Once you detached this rear tube, the blades become exposed.

Unfortunately, since the aperture was busted I could not take any test shots.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A quite common lens, but mainly sold under other brands like most Tokina lenses of those days.
I have one in Mamiya brand (yes, many of the lenses sold for Mamiya SLR's were sourced from Tokina and others).
The number of blades is not really relevant to bokeh on long lenses I have found. Bokeh is just fine with this.

Samples -
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=19582&highlight=%2Bmamiya&sid=d7fb5d83fa295428fa18f1941dea89b8

This preset lens is much better than any of the later Tokina made automatic versions, including the 400/6.3 T4 version found as a Soligor and Vivitar, and the 400/5.6.

My experience with mine is that it is a very fine performer indeed, similar to the excellent preset 300/5.5 from the same maker and also sold under dozens of brands.

I can't compare with more modern lenses as I haven't got any really modern ones, but if you are going to spend $20-50 on a long telephoto this is one to get.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Luis. It looks like I missed out on a reasonably good lens, if not a very good one. The seller was asking $180, which was a very high price (especially for a lens that needed total reconstructive surgery on the aperture). Oh well... Maybe next time.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That price was way too high, even for the lens in mint condition. I wouldn't pay more than about $70 for a decent one.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
That price was way too high, even for the lens in mint condition. I wouldn't pay more than about $70 for a decent one.

I agree. I was ready to make her an offer of $80... until I examined the lens.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have just acquired this lens, branded prinz-galaxy. Cost was only par+, particularly since there was a bit of fungus and light cleaning scratches on teh front element. And I relubed the helicoid. But the original leather case is good!
Will post some pics when the weather improves.. only some mediocre shots of the chimney so far just to check it out..



PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not impressed with pics so far but given the dull light at the moment any long lens is likely to struggle. I'll keep you posted...

By happenstance I have also acquired the 400mm's kid brother the 300mm f5.5. This has a Palinar nameplate, ST59xxxx serial.



PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Prinz Galaxy was the Dixons store brand, and they seemed to source lenses from everywhere. But this one has a few features that are familiar to a lot of other lenses of the period, the focus mark and the tripod ring are the same as some of my old Tokina's.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I thought I would swap the t-mount and found out this is not a standard t-mount. I do recall seeing some posts somewhere here on Tokina making a 47mm t-mount like mount for a while. I did a quick search but couldn't find anything (not for the first time. - isn't there a way of bookmarking threads on forum?). Luis - fount of all wisdom on such matters...??



PS this Hanimex labelled 400mm 6.3 is I think also a 47mm mount, though my Prinz-Galaxy, looks very similar, is not.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hanimex-400mm-f-6-3-f-32-prime-tele-lens-rare-M42-fit-/121562953115?

Last edited by marcusBMG on Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:08 pm; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The dreaded Tokina-only 47mm pseudo t-mount. I have several like this.
There is no way I know of to determine which of these has it vs the normal t-mount.
These are seen both in the Tokina brand and third party brands.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The registration distance seems to be the same however. I don't have a micrometer but laying the two mounts on table they are the same thickness as far as I can tell.
I might ask the friendly chap at the engineering shop what it would take to mod a t2 to a 47mm.

I was also interested to see this ad for another hanimex version. It comes with the unusual silver mount, in PK not M42. that would imply (if this is indeed the original mount that came with the lens) that the 400mm 6.3 was made into the mid 1970's.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151561829152?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think these were made that late. It may be regular T-mount and someone added a PK T-mount. Thats what the T-mount system was for after all.
Chrome T-mounts weren't typical of the 1970's though, my impression is that these would be earlier.
Alternate is its an M42 and someone has an adapter on it. Seen a lot of lenses with adapters.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Or it may not be PK at all, just has a PK rear cap.
IIRC these caps will sometimes fit on Nikon mounts.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I assumed that a camera shop (the seller - "Over 50 years experience in the photographic trade.") knows what a PK mount looks like - but I could be wrong.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Chrome T-mount with a chrome M42-PK adapter may look like PK at first glance unless you are really used to old lenses and adapters.
Or Nikon with no linkages vs PK. They are very very similar and easy to mistake at a glance.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Me: is this a t-mount lens
Seller: PK mount
Me: Can you unscrew the mount and tell me if the underlying thread is 42mm or 47mm?
Seller: I reckon its 47mm Hanimex had their own version of t2 mount
Me: Ah that's interesting - actually Tokyo Koki (= tokina) Hanimex didn't make anything themselves. Are you sure its a Pk mount and not a M42 mount with an adapter on it? This lens for sure predates introduction of PK mount.
Seller: "you are wasting my time."

50 yrs experience in the industry etc etc.. Laughing

Last edited by marcusBMG on Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Hanimex branded 300/5.5,the only difference between it and a branded Tele Tokina (200/4.5) is the top preset ring is more knurled (like the one in your link) and the orange lettering (in FT) is on the bottom and not the top like the Tokina.Both have silver mounts and both are clearly marked CS and SR respectively.

I always assumed if the lens has a silver mount and looks like a Tokina it will be the 47mm mount. It has worked so far Laughing
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