A Word about Russian Serial Numbers

themoleman342 · Expire: 2013-01-24

After reading through a great deal of the previous posts I noticed that there was a little discussion over the serial numbers of Russian lenses that start with 0, 00, or 000. As part of the yahoo zenit camera group we've come around to this topic more than once. I didn't know if anyone knew what they really meant so these were our findings. Alain Berry, a French ZCG group member gave these insights (translated by Martin Luerkens - another ZCG member):

000xxxxxx factory test (study) models (prototypes etc) mod?les d'�tudes
d'usine (prototypes etc..)
00xxxxxx preseries models reserved for members of the communist party
and "VIPs" (reserv�s aux membres du parti communist et haut
responsables en pr�-s�rie)
0xxxxxx reserved for factory syndicat leaders (r�serv�s aux
responsables syndicaux d'usines)

They are in fact all pre-production models. They are generally considered higher quality optics due to the fact that there is stricter quality control (which is disputed among Russian gear), they are produced in lower numbers with greater care, and they are not presented to the general public. A great many members, with multiple copies of the helios 44-2, have invariably found the best to be the one with the 0xxxxx serial number. Whether there is really any difference between which pre-production model is the better has yet to be tested.

I always look for the lenses with pre-production serial numbers because there�s that chance that they might be better than those of mass-production lines.

Anyways I hope this was of some value
~Marc

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Thanks Marc. This is an EXCELLENTLY INFORMATIVE contribution!!!!!

I have myself a few Russians beginning with zero numbers and in fact I was wondering how could that be possible for a lens bearing the writing "Made in USSR" to have a serial number implying a build in the year 2000! Laughing

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Maxim · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Marc - that's interesting! I didn't know about this fact before Smile

I have a Russian portrait lens, Tair-11A with 004548 serial number... look at the photo:

Thanks once again,
Hubert

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

Wow, this is a very nice lens that you have, Hubert!
The Tair-11A is said to be great and then this is a VIP-version. Shocked

Take good care!

Thanks for the info, Marc

Maxim · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject:

LucisPictor - this Tair is in good hands, I use it with respect and care Smile

I have also an original leather case (looks like the Thermos flask) and set of filters. I am interested when my copy was produced...

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Funny, my Tair11A also begins with a double zero (004891). Very Happy

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kuuan · Expire: 2014-12-26

themoleman342 · Expire: 2013-01-24

In the case of the Mir 47k, it may be that the lens was produced in 2000 rather than being a pre-production model.

kuuan · Expire: 2014-12-26

that would make sense..but considering that the lens looks VERY heavily used, as do all the 'old' camera stuff to be found in camera shops in Vietnam, I doubt that it is 'only' 9 years old

Mal1905 · Expire: 2011-11-18

Xpres · Expire: 2014-10-28

I wonder if there is any evidence for the '0' serial number stories? There seem to be an awful lot of '0xxx...' about.....

Jeff Zen · Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 262 Location: Northwest USA

djmike · Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Taiwan

My J-37A starts with 84xxxxx, J-9 with 83xxxxxx.

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

I am glad i found this debate. I have this very nice silver MIR-1. Coating has very strong purple color.

Serial number: 004221.

Can someone recognize producer from the photo (interesting symbol for coating).

�2009 Pancolart

themoleman342 · Expire: 2013-01-24

Despite having the KMZ symbol, I had heard that the mir-1s were not actually produced by them, only assembled in the early days (1950s). It was only after that that some larger companies such as zomz and vologda took on full-scale production and started using their own logos.

Quite a rare piece; a very nice find!

~Marc

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Thank's Marc. May i ask how come you're so into Russian optics? And if you can write your top 5 golden oldies lenses.

themoleman342 · Expire: 2013-01-24

First and foremost I am a social and intellectual historian of the Soviet era, specifically the interwar period. Because I've always had an interest in the region and decided to invest a little money into a photography hobby (which has subsequently turned into an addiction), I decided to go with East German and Soviet optics. The price/quality ratio is truthfully what kept me buying, but I do prefer the characteristics I get from these over many of the Japanese lenses that I do have. I rarely buy lenses 'coldly' (without knowing their full background), so usually if someone asks about one that I do have (in this case the mir-1) I know a bit about it.
A top lens list is a toughie for me but I'll tell you what I end up bringing on outings:
Mir 10A 3.5/28
Mir 24m 2/35
Zenitar-M 1.7/50
Helios 44 2/58 (perhaps -2, but I'm liking the original more and more)
Jupiter 9 2/85
Tair 11A 2.8/135
I know that is one more than you asked but one has to have a full range of focal lengths, no? Keep in mind I still exclusively use film. The list may change slightly in the next several weeks, since I am expecting a Helios 40-2, wooo! I also have some favorites like the m39 mir-1 or industar 22, that are wonderful, but restrictive since I can't get infinity. So these I use in special circumstances when I know the upcoming conditions.

I really need to get to updating my "equipment" set on flickr which as of now, does not even reflect 1/5th of my collection.

~Marc

JWH · Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Posts: 120 Location: Netherlands

I am also very interested in the histories and stories behind lenses and I happen to have one interesting piece ( posted before ).

So the 000x says it may have been a prototype, is it known what the 0009141 might mean? I've heard something about production dates but I can't think of a date that has 9141 in it Rolling Eyes

. I'm eager to find out what this might be because as a Prototype I wouldn't go with a serialnumber like that!

Kram · Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1344 Location: Portland, OR

Been searching for a good Helios 44-2. Just bought this:

Feel free to call me Mr. Factory Syndicat Leader.
Cool

DTR · Joined: 20 Jan 2012 Posts: 4 Location: Finland

Hello everyone!

I bought a Tair-11A lens couple of days ago from internet auction. After that I have compared my lens to other ones found from the internet. Many of them have a serial number between 700000-900000 and my lens have number 002796. Is it really a pre-production model? It came with UV-filter, plastic end cap, metallic front cap and bakelite container. Here is the whole set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/68161454@N04/6709598763/in/photostream/

Edit: for some reason web-link and uploaded picture worked out fine on preview mode, but not now...?

walter g · Joined: 20 Feb 2010 Posts: 2463 Location: NC, USA

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

I am proud owner this 000 started lens, I had in past 3-4 other copies from this lens, black and silver. I kept this older ones , because I love possible oldest and this lens has different rendering than latest ones. According to Marc 000 description now I more proud about my lens.

themoleman342 · Expire: 2013-01-24

I think the rarest preseries lens that I have is the Industar 24m:

It never actually entered full-scale production. I can't accurately speak to production numbers but of the 5 I've seen, mine has the latest serial number.

danfromm · Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 576

[quote="Attila"

I have a couple of Industar-22 collepsible 5cm lens , all serial start with 7xxx and surely this lens not made in 197x years.[/quote]

Interesting. According to the 1963 GOI catalog, the Industar-22 was designed in 1945.