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Which UWA for my A7
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
It looks good on 35mm film. Have you both lenses? I don't care if the lens is not very fast ( I was considering the Takumar f4,5 ).
I could get a Mir 20mm 3,5 for 100-150 € .


no, I only have the f2.5/20 which I only have used on APS-C, the photos linked are not mine but result of a search on flickr.
Vivitar/Tokina, Mir and Flektogons I brought into play are the 'budget' options, for your budget you may be able to do better

here some search results concerning the Zuikos ( again on 35mm film because wanting to be sure it's FF that's easier to search )
f2: http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=21273816@N02&q=zuiko%2021%20om%20film
f3.5: http://www.d2gallery.com/photos/olympus_zuiko_21f35/index.html
with some good links: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2011/10/olympus-21mm-f35-on-full-frame-digital.html


PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nFD 20/2.8 is excellent on the A7. I have seen nothing out perform it. Not heavy either, cheap at about 225USD for a perfect one, and easy to find.

And it's fast enough for low light work Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry for my ignorance, what is nFD ? is it Canon FD ?


PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nFD or FDn both refer to new Canon FD mount. The new all black FD lenses are lighter than the original FD lenses with chrome ring after the aperture ring.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dfujevec wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
DahakaNishoba wrote:
Used Samyang 14mm 2.8 manual focus in nikon/canon mount

+1
Not exactly 20mm Wink, it's quite large and there's a lot vignetting at wide apertures on FF but very sharp and stopped down good from corner to corner. It's also quite cheap!

You can use Samyang 14mm in crop mode and it will became 20/21mm lens Smile Smile Smile

Or he sells his a7 and get back to the nex 7 with samyang 14mm Rolling Eyes Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
Tedat wrote:
again.. what's your price limit? And how big/heavy can it be?


400/500 € . Second hand is ok.
Size? I don't know but an SLR lens is Ok . I has not to be a Rf lens.


ok.. two lenses come to my mind:

Zeiss Distagon 4/18mm
Konica Hexanon 2.8/21mm

both are very nice, Zeiss is a bit wider and more common. The Konica will be much harder to find, but it's a wonderful little lens.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dogtag wrote:
dfujevec wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
DahakaNishoba wrote:
Used Samyang 14mm 2.8 manual focus in nikon/canon mount

+1
Not exactly 20mm Wink, it's quite large and there's a lot vignetting at wide apertures on FF but very sharp and stopped down good from corner to corner. It's also quite cheap!

You can use Samyang 14mm in crop mode and it will became 20/21mm lens Smile Smile Smile

Or he sells his a7 and get back to the nex 7 with samyang 14mm Rolling Eyes Very Happy


haha, my wide angle, abt. 22 or 23mm equivalent, is Heliar 4.5/15 on Ricoh GXR, flawless performance which somewhat mitigated my wish for a FF mirrorless, it makes a smaller package ( which is important to me ) than I'd think any lens giving similar angle and performing equally well on the A7.
earlier had presented results of this combo here in this forum: http://forum.mflenses.com/voigtlaender-super-wide-heliar-f4-5-15mm-on-ricoh-gxr-m-t62228,start,15.html


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for all those answers.
The Zuiko looks like a nice compact lens with a reasonable price. Canon is afforable but looks bigger on the pictures.
What about the CV 21 f4 ?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
Thanks for all those answers.
The Zuiko looks like a nice compact lens with a reasonable price. Canon is afforable but looks bigger on the pictures.
What about the CV 21 f4 ?


the CV f4/21mm would be on top of the list for me, but this is above all because I like it small and consider a mirrorless camera a 'rangefinder successor' in the sense that rangefinder glass make a much better fit than SLR lenses. Though of course this is only true for size and overall package but not necessarily in performance, specially for wide angles because of the known corner issues of RF wide angles on mirrorless cams. Therefore I'd also consider Zuiko 3.5/21 and Pentax M 4/20, I read Nikkor 4/20 is very compact too. Generally for wide angles I find good coatings important and rather modern lenses may be preferable.

the CV 4/21 does have corner issues, color shift specially is seen in skies and may need correction.
here test shots, the one linked is the first one taken @f4, the following photos are each stopped down 1 stop:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inikon/10867977666/in/set-72157637688730425

and 'real world' pics ( don't know if corners were corrected )
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=21447632@N00&q=cv%2021mmf4

the CV 4/21 also is featured here together with other interesting lenses:
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/sony-a7-with-21mm-28mm-leica-ltm-m.html


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
the CV 4/21 does have corner issues, color shift specially is seen in skies and may need correction.


This kind of correction may be tricky! Crying or Very sad
With Zuiko 3.5/21mm, once I got similar bad results in sky and had a lot of work to fix.
A surprising good lens in this regard is sigma 1.8/20mm (Af version).


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vlousada wrote:
Quote:
the CV 4/21 does have corner issues, color shift specially is seen in skies and may need correction.


This kind of correction may be tricky! Crying or Very sad
With Zuiko 3.5/21mm, once I got similar bad results in sky and had a lot of work to fix.
A surprising good lens in this regard is sigma 1.8/20mm (Af version).


oh, this is surprising, bad corners even of a SLR 21mm Confused and corner fix seems not as easy as some make believe. thank you very much for your valuable input!
( - it occurs to me that some might take issue of my inputs here, after all I don't own the A7 and just one of the lenses I mentioned. Reason is that I find the question of the OP very interesting and therefore simply suggested a few often recommended lenses that had not been mentioned, and since it seems that not everybody finds samples that easily offered links. I hope that this is being helpful and curiously wait for opinions on the samples found online and specially for input of users with actual experience! )


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vlousada wrote:
With Zuiko 3.5/21mm, once I got similar bad results in sky and had a lot of work to fix.
A surprising good lens in this regard is sigma 1.8/20mm (Af version).


..are you really talking about the Zuiko 3.5/21mm (OM) or do you mean a Zuiko 3.5/20mm (Pen F) ? I never heard about issues with OM lenses and color shift.. Shocked


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am sorry to ALARM you! Very Happy

Yes, I was referring to 3.5/21mm on dSRL canon 5d2, in one particular situation that a blue sky was not as good as expected! In that particular situation I experiment an unusual color-shift like Kuuan was saying about CV21.
I found this issue in skies very hard to correct in post-processing.
I was surprised because have used successfully hundred of times the Zuiko 21mm for landscape and never have experienced that before... The photos looked very fine in camera but later on computer screen most of photos have this problem... very strange regarding time and weather conditions since was taken at spring with sunny and beautiful day.

To me, that Zuiko 21 is yet the better 21mm lens I tried, well balanced regarding tones and color with excellent sharpness in all the frame... Cool


PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have had pretty good results from my Soligor 17/4 (M42 mount).
I had always thought that it was a poorer f4 version of the Vivitar 17/3.5, since the lens size, lens diameter and front, f-stop range (except f3.5) are the same, though they look different on the body itself.
The caution on the Vivitar is that I did see comments on the local forums that its soft (A7r), so not sure if the guy got a bad copy.


DSC0075620140110ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr
This one links to a full sized sample on my flickr if you need it.



DSC0112820140112ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr



DSC0113720140113ILCE-7 by jenkwang, on Flickr


Flare resistance isn't good compared to OEM and modern lenses, some sharpness loss in the corners, mustache distortion and little bit of vignetting.
The latter two are easily correctable in LR (LR4 in my case)
I used the Zeiss 18/3.5 profile and corrected for the vignetting, then saved as a preset.
In more stringent situations (lots of buildings and or lines), this may not do, but so far so good.

I'm pretty happy with it still and its probably going to be my widest lens till a small one comes along.

I have some test shots from the Canon FD20/2.8 too, but they are no processed yet.
I'll post those here again when I get to them.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
in interesting thread at dpreview asking the same question: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3616216
with a link to a good blog about A7, testing mostly other, not yet here mentioned UWA


PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
in interesting thread at dpreview asking the same question: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3616216
with a link to a good blog about A7, testing mostly other, not yet here mentioned UWA


Good link, Thanks.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Finally have a chance (though a short one), trying out the A7+Canon FD 20/2.8.


DSC03423-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr


DSC0343320140129ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr



Few issues.
1. Undecided on ND filter to get since I've not finalised on the UWA to settle on.
There are big lenses, there are small lenses, and who knows what else is coming...

2. Flare resistance on the FD20 is poor to me, coming from a Pentax DA15 which is practically immune to flare.
My Soligor 17/4 fares as badly, which is surprising in that its a 3rd party lens and I expected better from an OEM lens with supposedly better multi coating (SSC)

3. I am not sure any more if its only the lens that flares or a combination from the sensor.

Sharpness is good to me.
Maybe a light fall off at the very extreme corners.
Considering its f2.8 (which will be versatile), 20mm and not expensive, its not too bad a lens.
The only thing that may make me relegate it to 'leave it at home' status is the flare.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Testing my lenses on the A7 , I am having bad surprises regarding the flare. My SMC 28/3,5 and my Chinon 35/2,8 are fortunatetly very good on this aspect. My beloved Super Tak 55/1,8 are bad.

Thank you for the link , Kuuon. The Samyang , a bit too wide for me, seems a nice and cheap lens.
I am currently investigating the Skopar 21/4 . It is said to have problems in the corner ( vignette and colour) but I am looking for examples.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
...
Thank you for the link , Kuuon. The Samyang , a bit too wide for me, seems a nice and cheap lens.
I am currently investigating the Skopar 21/4 . It is said to have problems in the corner ( vignette and colour) but I am looking for examples.


welcome!
one of my earlier links do show, well, only sample pics, but nevertheless pics taken with the f4/21mm Skopar on A7, here the one taken @ f4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/inikon/10867977666/in/set-72157637688730425 consecutive samples each stopped down one stop.

vlousada wrote:
I am sorry to ALARM you! Very Happy

Yes, I was referring to 3.5/21mm on dSRL canon 5d2, in one particular situation that a blue sky was not as good as expected! In that particular situation I experiment an unusual color-shift like Kuuan was saying about CV21.
I found this issue in skies very hard to correct in post-processing.
I was surprised because have used successfully hundred of times the Zuiko 21mm for landscape and never have experienced that before... The photos looked very fine in camera but later on computer screen most of photos have this problem... very strange regarding time and weather conditions since was taken at spring with sunny and beautiful day.

To me, that Zuiko 21 is yet the better 21mm lens I tried, well balanced regarding tones and color with excellent sharpness in all the frame... Cool


again surprising, but imo corner issues on Canon 5DII hardly say anything about the behavior of the same lens on A7. e.g. I have experience with f4/15mm Heliar on Ricoh GXR M and NEX5N, on the GXR it's flawless, on 5N it has some smearing/sharpness loss in corners and only sometimes color shift, samples I had seen with the same lens on NEX7 had rather bad color shift.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CV 21/4 is not a serious lens on either Sony. I tested both and hoped to use it. Impossible for landscape photography. A7 as usual is not as bad as R, but still very soft on the edges.

Even on the M9 the CV is not ultra crisp on edge, but it's light years ahead of the Sonys.

Now, the heavy CV 21/1.8 is really good on the Sonys.

I would not spend serious money yet on an UWA for the Sonys, because they will soon make one which is way better than any of the current options--with the A7s.

But the nFD 20/2.8 is not expensive.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As someone mentioned-the best strategy may be a Canon 20mm f2.8 FDn or Olympus 21mm f3.5 until a native FE mount uwa becomes available from Sony. The bad news is that everyone else knows this and the prices for clean examples of the Canon and Olympus have been climbing steadily since December. If you can live with size/weight the Samyang 14mm is a remarkable value.

I lean towards the Canon FDs, they are a little bulkier physically than the Olympus designs but I don't find any of mine awkward on the A7 until you go over 100mm. There is also the Tamron adaptall 17mm, I don't have one and I haven't seen any tests on the A7 with one but I use several other Tamron adaptall designs with an adaptall-NEX adapter, but I think the Canon FD 20mm is better at around the same money.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I suppose my OM 21/2 should work well on the A7 if the 21/3.5 does. But that's just guessing, I haven't seen any samples yet with this combination.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I could get a Mir20mm 3.5 for 65 Euros. It is slightly dammaged. One blade is not fully ok and the aperture is "round" till 5.6.
I shall try to fix it but it works not so bad as it is.
Canon will be my final choice if I find a good deal. The pictures made with this lens and showed on this thread are in my opinion convincing.
Thank you all for your help.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some more examples from the Canon FD20/2.8 SSC on A7.


DSC0414620140215ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr



DSC0414820140215ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr
A7+Canon FD20/2.8

I am starting to like this lens for its perspective of 20mm on FF.
Not too OTT in terms of perspective distortion and generally wide enough to do most stuff.

I think is sharp all thru to the edge too and has f2.8 in case it is needed.
Maybe flare control is its main weakness, though I may be expecting too much for a lens of its lineage.

IMHO, its a decent option as a A7 UWA prime for the price, performance, f2.8.
I gave in and bought a Voigtlander 12/2.6 though after trying a friend's copy.
It was too small and portable to ignore, but being 12mm perspective distortion can be too much at time for me.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some more examples from the Canon FD20/2.8 SSC on A7.


DSC0414620140215ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr



DSC0414820140215ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr
A7+Canon FD20/2.8

I am starting to like this lens for its perspective of 20mm on FF.
Not too OTT in terms of perspective distortion and generally wide enough to do most stuff.

I think is sharp all thru to the edge too (f8, f11) and has f2.8 in case it is needed.
Maybe flare control is its main weakness, though I may be expecting too much for a lens of its lineage.

IMHO, its a decent option as a A7 UWA prime for the price, performance, f2.8.
I gave in and bought a Voigtlander 12/5.6 though after trying a friend's copy.
It was too small and portable to ignore, but being 12mm perspective distortion can be too much at time for me.
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