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where can I view sample photo from Canon FD 800mm ?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: where can I view sample photo from Canon FD 800mm ? Reply with quote
I am hunting for tele lens to use with NEX. I cannot find much good photo of Canon FD 800mm lens. Those that I found are ugly with a lot of CA. I am not sure I am expecting too high?

Here are some of the sample I got from one of the photog of fredmiranda.

http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Natur/Graureiher-1_jpg_orig.html
http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Natur/Fischreiher-1_jpg_orig.html
http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Natur/Reiher_jpg_orig.html
http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Natur/Fischreiher_jpg_orig.html
http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Natur/Graureiher__jpg_orig.html
http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Hamburg/Hamburger-Hafen_jpg_orig.html
http://www.4photos.de/galerie/Hamburg/Im-Trockendock_jpg_orig.html


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It doesn't surprise me, even the current Canon ultra-teles exhibit visible CA sometimes.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
251114038128 Not quite what you think you want, but apochromatic.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not a bad idea, I have a Wollensak Apochromatic Raptar 11/541, it's fantastic but a bit impractical, I have it mounted on a 450mm tube with a set of bellows on the back for focusing. I only shoot it wide open and it has zero CA and is very sharp indeed.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply and suggestion.

@danfromm, How can it mount on NEX? What type of adapter needed?


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: where can I view sample photo from Canon FD 800mm ? Reply with quote
wilco wrote:
I am hunting for tele lens to use with NEX. I cannot find much good photo of Canon FD 800mm lens. Those that I found are ugly with a lot of CA. I am not sure I am expecting too high? ...............................................................


Have you also checked samples taken with the (supposedly near-apochromatic) FD "L" version?


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To mount that thing you'd need a long tube and some bellows.

I did something along those lines with my 541mm process lens:



PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wilco wrote:
Thanks for the reply and suggestion.

@danfromm, How can it mount on NEX? What type of adapter needed?


wilco, I've done more or less what Ian did. I think that the difference is that I shoot 2x3, hang a variety of lenses up to 480 mm in front of a #1 shutter on 2x3 Graphics. Graphics (plural) set up as a tandem camera for lenses longer than ~ 300 mm. I've also hung them in front of a Nikon for testing and occasional use.

Adapting a long process lens to NEX? At the lens end, female lens thread (don't know what the one in question is)-to-male extension tube (I use E. Leitz NY tubes, M39; I think Ian uses M42 tubes) adapter. A string of tubes, with a clamp somewhere to attach the string to a tripod. A bellows -- I use what I think is the FSU bellows Ian showed, mine is in M39, it is light, has a lot of travel, its rear standard moves, and its inexpensive -- and behind it an M39 (or M42)-to-NEX adapter.

This approach works well for relatively short (up to around 500 mm) lenses. There's a problem, though, with putting a narrow tube behind a long lens. If the lens' exit pupil is larger than the tube's diameter, the lens diaphragm will have no effect on exposure until the lens is stopped down far enough for the exit pupil to be smaller than the tube.

I had this problem with my 900/10 Apo Saphir as first set up for my 2x3 Baby Bertha.

The more I think about it, the more I think that if you want to pursue this approach with lenses longer than around 500 mm you should use a 4x5 view camera to get the extension. I have a 2x3 Cambo SC set up to use my 480/9 and 610/9 Apo Nikkors and 900/10 Apo Saphir.

I don't recommend a 2x3 view camera because of these cameras' and accessories' -- standards and bellows -- scarcity and cost. Something like a 4x5 Cambo SC2 with an intermediate standard and a second bellows and a long rail, with the long lens on board at the front and the NEX on a board at the rear, would be ideal. I suggest Cambo because I know the Cambo system and because used 4x5 Cambos and accessories are relatively inexpensive and easy to find. I think this is also true of low-end Sinars but I have no experience with that system.

Long rail for an SC? 1" square 80/20 brand t-slotted aluminum extrusion is the right size, easy to get, and much less expensive than long rails from Cambo.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dan's right, that's a FSU set of M42 bellows, as he says, long travel, back standard moves, quality item. I have an identical set in M39.

That tube I used was a 8/500 Hanimex piece of crap, I removed the glass elements then epoxied the Raptar in the front, the original idea was to use the helicoid of this lens to focus the Raptar. Sadly, it wasn't long enough so I needed to extend the tube a good 6-7inches (21.25inch/541mm lens needs to be that distance from the sensor) but I found the bellows solved the problem neatly and was a batter solution as this gave me a focusing wheel near the camera and that works 10x better than trying to use the helicoid in the middle would.

If I were to do it again, I'm find some black plastic pipe (drainpipe perhaps) of the right diameter and a pair of end caps for it. I'd cut the tube to about 6 inches sorter than the focal length of the lens then put the end caps on securely with epoxy and maybe a couple of self tapping screws. then I'd mount the lens in one cap with an appropriate sized hole, then cut another hole in the other end cap and mount on it an M42 mount in order to be able to connect a set of bellows.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Ian and Dan for the information. Will it worth to take the hassle in terms of IQ. I would love to see sample from them. This is going to be another exploring world of lens Smile I need to google more.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd say worth it as these process lenses are very sharp indeed and apochromatic so no CA. Mine needs the contrast fixed in PP, but that's a minor thing.

Some samples on NEX-3, not the best to judge sharpness as heat haze has an effect at this range:


#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, its funny that you should mention drain pipe. When my Baby Bertha was in the development stage it became very clear that there are no affordable standard bellows for 2x3 Cambos to be had -- wilco, availability of parts is one of 4x5 Cambo cameras' great advantages over my little 2x3. So I had an extension tube made from two 2x3 Cambo lens boards and a length of lightweight 4" PVC drain pipe. Lightweight 4" PVC pipe is translucent and very smooth and shiny inside. Good extension tubes are opaque and well-blackened inside. Thank heavens for flocked paper.

wilco, I can't advise you about whether getting a long process lens and making it usable will be worth the trouble and expense to you. I don't know your budget or your standards. I also don't know how lucky you'll be when you go shopping. My most expensive long process lens, a 900/10 Apo Saphir, cost around $US 200 delivered. It was a very lucky find. You'll do well to get an 800 mm +/- process lens for 4x that price. And then you'll have the joy and expense of rigging up something to hold it far out in front of your NEX.

FWIW, even though I have some very good long lenses, I don't use them much. I find that in the situations where I take pictures lenses no longer than normal and often much shorter are more useful than lenses much longer than normal.

To give you an idea of what's important to me, I've bought four lenses in the last two years. One 2x normal for 2x3, one .85x normal, one .6x normal, and one .45x normal. The longest of these (200/2 S.F.O.M., covers 4x5) was bought to see what it is; monsters like it are just too hard to use and I knew that when I bought it.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree Dan, long lenses are rarely used by me, I just get the Raptar out when I'm bored and fancy some fun.

To give you some idea of sharpness, those telephone wire in the shot of the wind turbines were 9km from the camera, to resolve those at that distance on a warm summer day with haze in the air is impressive imho and something you wouldn't get from all but the most expensive telephotos. Certainly the 400mm Tokina I had wouldn't have done it, not even close.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Ian and Dan. Sample photo color does not look vibrant.
@Dan, my budget is under 2k. I meant to take bird photo and not BIF. I search through ebay and I found 4x5 cambo with bellows for around $250 to 300. What I am not clear is how to mount rodenstock lens. The one that you provide from ebay screwed on the wood board. I am not in the place where I can access to DIY stuff.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try renting a long telephoto for a few days, that will allow you to find out if it does what you want.

Atmospheric conditions at the long distances i was shooting kill colours and contrast, I will see if I can find some closer shots of birds.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wilco, what does BIF mean?

Cambos have cast metal lensboards. Lenses are held to them by flanges or retaining rings. Here's a link http://www.skgrimes.com/products/mounting-flanges that should make clear what they are.

The lensboard will have to be bored to accept the lens. This link http://www.skgrimes.com/lens-mounting/to-lensboard should give you and idea of what's involved.

Used process lenses sometimes come with flanges. The 4x5 Cambo lensboard is 162 mm square. If the lens you buy has a flange and it will fit the board, that's great. If the lens is too fat to pass through the camera's front standard, it can be mounted in front of the standard. Not inexpensive, but all this should easily fit in a $2K budget.

Understand, that standard 4x5 Cambo bellows gives around 50 cm extension. You'll need a second bellows and an intermediate standard. Cambo makes (? certainly made) an intermediate standard, these aren't common. But front and rear standards are identical, they can be bought used for around $50 and one of them will do. I have three 2x3 Cambo standards, the extension tube runs from front standard to intermediate standard, the bellows from intermediate to rear. Clear? You'd use two bellows, used 4x5 bellows are much less expensive than the tube I had made.

If the lens is heavy, it should be supported. I use a mutilated 4x5 Cambo front standard (2x3s and 4x5s use the same rails). An inexpensive lab jack might be a little less trouble. I use one to support my Baby Bertha's SLR module. www.labconusa.com , their SKU 3588-1, “Lab Jack Aluminum 4"(100mm)

To attach a NEX to a Cambo view camera you'll have to attach a NEX extension tube or female SLR-to-male NEX adapter to a suitably bored Cambo lens board.

None of the machining needed can be done with hand tools. I don't have the machinery, pay skgrimes to do the machining I need.

I keep saying Cambo, am not 100% sure that it is a better choice for what you want to do than Sinar. Look into Sinar equipment.

The rig will need a very sturdy tripod. The camera will be long and heavy, is not going to be well-suited for following birds in flight. I focus my long lens rig by moving the rear standard, the front standard is too far away to reach. Also, unless you shoot only at full aperture you're going to need a helper to stop the lens down before you shoot and open it after. Otherwise you'll have to run to the front of the rig, stop down, run to the back, shoot, ...


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian and Dan thanks for your informative detail reply. You make me on the fence to get Canon FD800 or Nikon 600mm Ais.
@Dan - BIF means Bird In Flight. I want to watch and take the photo of birds. If I spend around 2k, I can get manual lenses above 500mm and my DSLR are nikon body too. I will check and match the pieces of information you provided to me to get the whole picture. It looks like running back and forth to adjust the aperture. I am really appreciate for giving me the information and I will decide whether to jump in that route. I have gitzo carbon 3series and I believe it can handle the weight.
Bty for Rodenstock 760mm lens, does the price is right for $900? Since I am not used to with pricing for the lens I cannot judge it.
I will ask you more question for sure.

Regards,
Wilco


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wilco, thanks for the explanation. On the whole, I think you may be better off with a 35 mm SLR (or the digital equivalent) and a long lens.

If you want to use a NEX, can live with a mirror lens, a 700/8 Questar (in T-mount) might be a better choice, and certainly a lot less trouble, than using a long process lens. I've had one for years, superb lens but hard to use. Long lenses punish the least unsteadiness severely. Think very seriously about support.

I'm not sure on pricing. If you're patient, you can probably find a long Apo-Artar in the http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/ classified ads section for less than on eBay. If you're patient, you might be able to find one on eBay for as little as $.75/mm. If you're in a hurry, well, you'll pay more. I'm patient and poor, pay little or don't buy.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi wilco, manual world is small Smile

Do you really need the 800mm focal length with the NEX?
The Canon FD 500/4.5L is much better than the FD 800/5.6 SSC at least the ones I got.
I have only made few test images back then:
http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/Canon-FD500-4.5L-EF-mount-conversion.html at end of page.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Markus, Oh ya! I was requesting more sample Smile. I check on Ed Miker's flickr photostream which has more full size and does not look good at all unless resize to 1024 pixel.

Here is one of them, sorry photo does not appropriate to look though http://www.flickr.com/photos/ontarian/4555645739/sizes/l/in/photostream/


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Putting a Nex behind a big tele lens is awkward at best, and probably fairly unusable in practice, especially for bird photography. Finding the bird with a 800mm lens, equivalent to a 1200m with an APS-C, will already be challenging with a reflex. On the screen of the Nex, it's even worse!
Have you ever tried such a thing?

I went out last sunday for a casual stroll around a nearby lake with the children, and grabbed the Nex with the FD 8/500mm Reflex lens... handholding it, it was near impossible to find the subject due to the screen limitation (rolling shutter and slow image update) and then to adjust focus because of the shaking, the bad viewing of the rear screen due to the sun and again the slow update.
I would not imagine being able to do anything with an even longer lens on a always moving subject like a bird... or do you intend to setup your rig in static for nest photography?


PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes I intended for static bird photography. Not intended to use for Bird in flight.[/quote]
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