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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
nixland wrote: |
As I recall, the Contax Zeiss 85/1.2 anniversary edition also has ninja star aperture. Please confirm |
Probably only at f/2 and f/2.8. I think that all Contax lenses that can display a pronounced ninja star (most of the faster AE lenses, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4 etc.) only do so at one or two aperture settings. |
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fuzzywuzzy
Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 1258 Location: Down East, Canada, eh?
Expire: 2013-11-30
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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fuzzywuzzy wrote:
Samples from the SMC Bellows Takumar 100/4.
Wide open - round iris.
f/8 - ninja star bokeh
_________________ I welcome C&C, editing my pics and reposting them on the forum is fine.
NEX-F3
~~~~~~~~~
CZJ Sonnar 135/4, Biotar 58/2, Pancolar 50/2, Tessar 50/2.8, Flek 35/2.8, Flek 25/4
Super Takumar 135/2.5, 135/3.5, 100/4 bellows, 50/1.4, 28/3.5
Helios 58/2, 3M-5A 500/8, Mir 20M
Vivitar Series 1 70-210 - - - - - - - - Nikkor 200/4
Rikenon 28/2.8 - - - - - - - - Zeiss 50/1.7 Planar
PB 50/2.4, 135/2.8
Yashica 50/1.9, 28/2.8, 135/2.8
Hexanon 28/3.5, 50/1.4 |
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Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013 Posts: 356 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Basilisk wrote:
flektogon 35 f2.4 at f2.8. Below this it is hexagons
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
A well known one, but not mentioned, so:
C/Y Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/85 AEG @f2: ninja stars are more evident stopped down a little, but I found no samples. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
Some others from the sankyo kohki w-komura 2.5/35
f4
Stopped down to around f8
These were taken a couple of years ago, so the recorded aperture could be wrong _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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FotoPete
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 126
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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FotoPete wrote:
Don't forget about the Helios 40! _________________ My Gear and Other Ramblings :: http://filmlensaddict.blogspot.ca/ |
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vanylapep
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 312
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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vanylapep wrote:
Konica Hexanon 40mm f1.8
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Pontus
Joined: 18 Dec 2011 Posts: 1471 Location: Jakobstad, Finland
Expire: 2016-08-25
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Pontus wrote:
Contax Zeiss S-Planar 60/2.8 _________________ Follow this link for my FOR SALE list (partially updated 19.11.2015) |
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Arkku
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Arkku wrote:
Volna-9 examples:
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thebbm
Joined: 11 Dec 2013 Posts: 294 Location: France montpellier
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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thebbm wrote:
Unfortunately for me Contax yashica carl zeiss distagon 35mm 1.4 and planar 85mm 1.4
[/url] |
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Rick1779
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 1207 Location: Italy
Expire: 2014-06-06
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Rick1779 wrote:
Industar 62 L/D
_________________ TELLTALE
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Davichin
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 33 Location: Canary Islands
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Davichin wrote:
Great examples! More lenses to look for... I will start with the Volna... _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/67522368@N00/
www.davidbarrio.com |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4569 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
Canon LTM f1.8/50mm ver.II,
8 blades, looks pretty much the same as those of the Bellows Takumar shown _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010 Posts: 4713 Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Nordentro wrote:
Volna 9 again
_________________ Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
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thebbm
Joined: 11 Dec 2013 Posts: 294 Location: France montpellier
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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thebbm wrote:
i always asked myself why they build lenses with only few blades like this ?? i think lens constructor can easly put one or two blades to avoid this "star-shaped" apertures.
Anyone know why please ?
thanks |
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Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013 Posts: 356 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Basilisk wrote:
thebbm wrote: |
i always asked myself why they build lenses with only few blades like this ?? i think lens constructor can easly put one or two blades to avoid this "star-shaped" apertures.
Anyone know why please ?
thanks |
In an automatic lens, the blades have to close and open rapidly when the photo is taken, so out went the preset lenses with 16 blades to be replaced with mechanically simpler designs with 6 or so blades. Fewer blades means less friction and less danger of mechanical disfunction. More expensive lenses could be made with higher precision and testing, so could get away with more blades.
At least that is my understanding, which could be wrong. |
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Davichin
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 33 Location: Canary Islands
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Davichin wrote:
Komura 135 3.5 also has a star shaped bokeh... _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/67522368@N00/
www.davidbarrio.com |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1632 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
kds315* wrote: |
Does that get visible in the bokeh these lenses produce?
.. |
For sure!
The aperture form results in bokeh form. Sometimes is is softend, for example due to spherical aberration - so the form is no more visible. But in extra bokeh tests and many images with pronouced bokeh one can see the bokeh form.
With an inverse bullseye filter in the aperture position one gets very smooth bokeh - apodization filtering.
The bokeh result is the reason I don´t like the Zeiss Contax AE lenses that much, I think they all have at some f-stops the ninja stars formed aperture.
Zeiss MM lenses not.
The famous Tokina 90mm f/2.5 macro has ninja stars at several f-stops, the Vivitar 90/2.5 predecessor only at one f-stop when I remember correct - this is why I love my Vivitar. _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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Arkku
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Arkku wrote:
thebbm wrote: |
i always asked myself why they build lenses with only few blades like this ?? i think lens constructor can easly put one or two blades to avoid this "star-shaped" apertures.
Anyone know why please ?
thanks |
While I don't know the specific answer as to why they make a star-shaped aperture, I'd like to point out that, e.g., the Volna-9 has six blades, which is the same number as many other lenses (perhaps the most common number of blades in vintage auto-aperture lenses!) but most of them have those six blades arranged as to give hexagon rather than star shape…
So I might speculate that the star shape is actually deliberate, and in being a more complex shape than the more common hexagon, perhaps it is actually an attempt to make the bokeh look better with the same number of blades. |
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thebbm
Joined: 11 Dec 2013 Posts: 294 Location: France montpellier
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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thebbm wrote:
@Basilisk and @Arkku, thanks for the answer.
Maybe that this shape make a better bokey yes.
I just look at a contax 35mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.4 and both have in fact 8 blades but make the "star" shape so it's wanted.
Maybe this is because they're not much space inside the lens to put longer shape ? |
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 1632 Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
Another reason for the aperture form could be the resulting stars at nighttime photography - not bokeh but the stars around small sharp focussed lights. _________________ Camera modification, repair and DIY - some links to look through: http://www.4photos.de/camera-diy/index-en.html
I AM A LENS NERD!
Epis, Elmaron, Emerald, Ernostar, Helioplan and Heidosmat.
Epiotar, Kameraobjektiv, Anastigmat, Epis, Meganast, Magnagon, Quinar, Culmigon, Novotrinast, Novflexar, Colorplan, Sekor, Kinon, Talon, Telemegor, Xenon, Xenar, Ultra, Ultra Star. Tessar, Janar, Visionar, Kiptar, Kipronar and Rotelar.
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7555 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
It is possible that the aperture blade will be more durable/long lasting if they are in such shape... _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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anscochrome
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 115 Location: Omaha, NE
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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anscochrome wrote:
Contax/Yashica 135mm F 2.8 Sonnar has ninja star diaphragm from 3.2-F 4.0, then it goes away:) |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4569 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
I am amazed by the samples shown, very, very creative use of the stars!
just found out that not only Canon LTM 1.8/50 II I mentioned already has the star aperture but also Canon LTM f1.8/35. Wonder if there is quite a number of Canon LTM lenses that have it _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021 Posts: 1406 Location: Kent, UK
Expire: 2025-05-01
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
Three of the Asahi Pentax lenses have this star-shaped diaphragm from ~f/5.6-11 -- the first M42 version of the Macro-Takumar and the two M42 Bellows-Takumars.
Versions with the star-shape diaphragm:
Macro-Takumar 1:4 50mm 1:1 (M42)
Bellows-Takumar 1:4 100mm (M42)
S-M-C Bellows-Takumar 1:4 100mm (M42)
These versions DO NOT have the star-shaped diaphragm:
S-M-C Macro-Takumar 1:4 50mm 1:2 (M42)
S-M-C Macro-Takumar 1:4 100mm (M42)
SMC Bellows-Takumar (K)
(ref: my lens collection )
f/8 |
I just got an S-M-C Bellows-Takumar 1:4 100mm (M42) which indeed has that 8-pointed star aperture at f/8.
Pentax, like other makers, were perfectly capable of making a rounded or octagonal 8-blade aperture when they designed this lens, so one has to assume it is deliberate.
Best reason I can think of (since I have seen a few other macro & bellows lenses mentioned with star-shaped apertures), is that for this lens it has something to do with controlling the appearance of diffraction softening.
The anticipated use for this macro bellows lens would likely be at magnification ratios of 1:1 or even a bit larger. The most star-shaped aperture is located at f/8 on this lens, which under extension for 1:1 magnification or beyond would translate into an f/16 to f/22 equivalent, which is precisely when diffraction is setting in for the 35mm image format. The aperture shape and number of blades is known to affect the diffraction pattern, with longer opposing parallel straight edges leading to the most pronounced directional spreading (noticeable as the sun-stars at f/16 and beyond). It looks like this aperture is designed to avoid longer opposing parallel straight edges precisely at the likely optimum aperture used for trade-of between DOF and diffraction softening. This is a wild guess, but I think the aperture for this lens has been designed to give a less intrusive appearance of the diffraction softening at the most likely used magnification ratios and aperture setting. I suspect mechanical limitations prevent the aperture to be designed as star-shaped for all apertures, hence it becomes octagonal and eventually round for smaller apertures.
My older Minolta MACRO-ROKKOR 50/3.5 preset lens also has this type of star-shaped aperture precisely at f/8, albeit a bit less pronounced. That lens was also likely to be used on a bellows for magnifications of 1:1 and higher (possibly in reverse), thus f/8 would also translate in a diffraction limiting f/16 or f/22 stop under those use conditions.
It would be interesting to see what the diffraction pattern looks like in particular for a star-shaped aperture like this as opposed to a hexagonal/octagonal/round one of the same size. _________________ Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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