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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 960
Location: Austin
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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: What is wrong here, and is it fixable? |
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Mos6502 wrote:
I recently acquired a very scarce wide angle lens off of ebay (this whole transaction has been a mess... my first actually bad ebay deal in years) - this lens had rather bad haze on it, but after cleaning it with all sorts of different things, this haze remains on this one element (all other elements are clean now).
I think this may be a cemented group, and the haze is internal. Is there there any way to know for sure? And if so - can it be fixed?
I doubt that I will be seeing another one of these lenses any time soon, so I'd like to get it useable. |
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Kathmandu
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 1479
Location: (Kathmandu,Nepal. Currently)Pacific Northwest, USA
Expire: 2012-04-08
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: Re: What is wrong here, and is it fixable? |
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Kathmandu wrote:
| Mos6502 wrote: |
I recently acquired a very scarce wide angle lens off of ebay (this whole transaction has been a mess... my first actually bad ebay deal in years) - this lens had rather bad haze on it, but after cleaning it with all sorts of different things, this haze remains on this one element (all other elements are clean now).
I think this may be a cemented group, and the haze is internal. Is there there any way to know for sure? And if so - can it be fixed?
I doubt that I will be seeing another one of these lenses any time soon, so I'd like to get it useable. |
Sorry about your bad luck. What lens is this ? Someone may have opened this before and might be able to help.
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 960
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
It is a Soligor Miranda 28mm PAD lens, as described here: http://miranda.s32.xrea.com/miranda/MSJ_html/lens/wide_lens.html
8 elements in six groups. I could not find a diagram of this specific lens though. |
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trifox
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 3614
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-05-29
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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trifox wrote:
this looks pretty bad..
If you can only 'scratch' the lens .. then you won't clean it.
The damage is permanent, I am afraid.
It may be some acid (even vinegar might cause such a damage)
tf
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
If no other way to rescue it take this bad looking element to an optical shop they have machinery to polish glasses. Give it a try!
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 960
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
Hmmmm. I'd hate to return it, even though I'm already strongly considering it because the item was not described correctly.
Could it be glue residue? This element is glued it in it appears (no retaining ring). There was definitely a film of gunk on it, but I let it sit in soapy water for an hour and it seemed to come off easily after that. I had tried lighter fluid before trying that and it didn't do anything (and I didn't want to risk "scrubbing" the lens).
If it is glue possibly, would acetone remove the residue? Or would that harm the lens? Is it worth trying?
And I guess as a last resort I could try Attila's idea, thought that would remove the coating on the lens wouldn't it? |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I guess acetone itself is safe for glass, but if it's glue I am not sure you will not make a milk on it , try it at edge on small spot.
Yes, my suggestion is last not only coating will be removed, but part of glass also.
Return is most convince solution for sure.
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 960
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
Well drat. I wanted a wide angle for my Miranda more than anything else (camera related anyway  )
I decided to try acetone and it didn't appear to have any effect. I couldn't find any info on whether this is a cemented group or a single element, but I'm pretty sure the lens is based off of a Tessar design, so it doesn't make much sense for this element to be a glued group (it sits just in front of the aperture).
I looked at my later Miranda 28mm and the glass is of a little different design, so probably no hope of a swap.
I guess I need to keep looking.  |
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indianadinos
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1310
Location: Toulouse, France
Expire: 2011-12-05
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: What is wrong here, and is it fixable? |
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indianadinos wrote:
| Mos6502 wrote: |
I think this may be a cemented group, and the haze is internal. Is there there any way to know for sure? And if so - can it be fixed?
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Well, if it is a cemented group, this may be "just" elements separation ... Read somewhere that is not really hard to fix, provided that you have the skills and the right tools ...
Basically, you would separate the two elements, polish them, then glue both again. As read somewhere (cannot find the link right now), an hot oil bath would be enough to separate the elements. But then, you would have to polish them and glue them again (with the proper alignment) using a kind of UV curing glue ...
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 960
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
If they are glued, then boiling water should be enough to separate them. And they still make balsam glue I think, but I wouldn't have any clue about how to reglue them, if that indeed is the problem. |
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Himself
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 3245
Location: Montreal
Expire: 2013-05-30
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Himself wrote:
Reglueing looks easy. Only when you watching. Me thinks.
Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7_wL0ZZi6k
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dof
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 339
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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dof wrote:
It may be Canada Balsam.
This may help:
http://www.atmsite.org/contrib/Sapp/LensGlue/ |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3666
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
I just ordered and received some Canadian Balsam from here
http://www.surplusshed.com/ they accept PayPal.
This thread may also help.
http://forum.mflenses.com/re-cementing-doublet-elements-with-canadian-balsam-t34467.html
It should be obvious when you look at the side of the element if it's a cemented doublet, modern lenses can use something other than balsam that cures with UV light to speed up manufacture, but I don't see any reason you can't use balsam as a replacement so long as their refraction index is close. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7794
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
http://throughavintagelens.com/2010/06/lens-fungus/
This is interesting, and the author sounds as though he knows what he's talking about - fungus and cemented lenses.
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