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What is the best quality 2x telecoverter?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: What is the best quality 2x telecoverter? Reply with quote
I have a Tamron SP 300mm f2.8 LD IF (60B model) and a Tamron SP 01F 2x teleconverter. The lens on its own is pretty good even wide open but its noticably softer with the TC fitted. The Tamron SP 200F 2x teleconverter is apparently 50% better than the 01F, buts its as rare as hens teeth and probably ludicrously expensive as a result.
What I need is a TC thats as good as the 200F, but is easily available and as cheap as a 01F.
Problem is, I cant find any teleconverter comparisons apart from "screw on the front" type TC's...They dont make one to suit the 112mm filter thread of my 60B so they are about as usefull as an ashtray on a motorbike!
Does'nt anyone know of any decent TC comparisons?


PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Both Tamron 2X TC have 6-elements in 4 groups. According to 200F datasheet, the design is a "stretched" version of the 01F, stretched as long as room to attach to lens permits, for better correction because light ray angles inside longer design are closer to perpendicular, easier to correct.

Spiratone made a matched TC designed specifically for 400mm sharpshooter -- that combination works better than any other TC combination I have tried, TC has noticeable less effect on lens IQ. This Spiratone TC does appear to be of the "stretched" variety.

Vivitar made some nice 7-element TCs for specific lenses or focal lengths. I've been unable to find any reference with specifics.

In my experience the Tamron 01F TC is as good as or better than the best 7-element unmatched TC I have -- a "stretched" 7-element design may be better, maybe not.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you thought about a new Kenko DGX 2x tele converter? The 1.4x model is very good.


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Both Tamron 2X TC have 6-elements in 4 groups. According to 200F datasheet, the design is a "stretched" version of the 01F, stretched as long as room to attach to lens permits, for better correction because light ray angles inside longer design are closer to perpendicular, easier to correct.

Spiratone made a matched TC designed specifically for 400mm sharpshooter -- that combination works better than any other TC combination I have tried, TC has noticeable less effect on lens IQ. This Spiratone TC does appear to be of the "stretched" variety.

Vivitar made some nice 7-element TCs for specific lenses or focal lengths. I've been unable to find any reference with specifics.

In my experience the Tamron 01F TC is as good as or better than the best 7-element unmatched TC I have -- a "stretched" 7-element design may be better, maybe not.


Just stretching a teleconverter does'nt necessarily make it better optically...I tried a Nikon TC-301 on the 60B...The TC-301 is specifically designed to work with lenses of 300mm or over and its about three times longer than a 01F. It has 5 elements in five groups.
It was'nt any sharper than the 01F but it had huge levels of purple fringing...At least 10 pixels wide or wider!
Needless to say I returned it ASAP and carried on with 01F.
I wonder if its possible that Leica may make a really good TC that will be compatable with the 60B? I passed up the oppotunity to buy a mint Leica R 2x TC for £40 from a camera shop...When I went back a week later it had gone, and I've always wondered what it would have been like.


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For years, my favorite 2x teleconverter has been the Vivitar 2x 7-element macro focusing TC. I have taken test photos with it before: same image with and without the TC. And I have found no noticeable image degradation. By the same token, I've noticed no additional image resolution, either. For example, one of the tests was of the moon. The image taken with the TC showed no appreciable degradation, but it showed no additional image detail either. It was just an image of the moon that had been doubled. So when I saw this, I realized that I could do the same thing in post processing -- just upsize the image to double its original size, and I've accomplished the same thing.

But an entirely different reason for using it is its macro feature. It will take a 50mm to 1:1, or allow any lens to focus closer than its minimum, which is reason enough to get one, in many cases.

The Vivitar 2x is not uncommon and can be found in a variety of mounts. Here's an auction at eBay for a Nikon mount one that has some pretty good sized images to view:

Click here to see on Ebay

I currently own two -- one in Nikon mount and one in Canon FD mount.


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting topic...does anyone own both Tamron adapters to give us a comparison with both the 01F and the 200F.
I have only used the 01F on the Tamron mirror and I found it hard to obtain a decent focus.. Sad


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
Interesting topic...does anyone own both Tamron adapters to give us a comparison with both the 01F and the 200F.
I have only used the 01F on the Tamron mirror and I found it hard to obtain a decent focus.. Sad


The problem is the 200F is so rare you would have to be extremely lucky to find anyone who has one, let alone has a 01F as well to compare it against. You would have more chance of finding rocking horse droppings!
I think Michaels suggestion of the Vivitar macro focussing TC may be worth looking at.


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
For years, my favorite 2x teleconverter has been the Vivitar 2x 7-element macro focusing TC. I have taken test photos with it before: same image with and without the TC. And I have found no noticeable image degradation. By the same token, I've noticed no additional image resolution, either. For example, one of the tests was of the moon. The image taken with the TC showed no appreciable degradation, but it showed no additional image detail either. It was just an image of the moon that had been doubled. So when I saw this, I realized that I could do the same thing in post processing -- just upsize the image to double its original size, and I've accomplished the same thing.


Its quite a feat to find a TC that does'nt degrade IQ, even if its just by a small amount. The 60B is noticably sharper on its own than with the 01F, and the 01F is supposed be a very good quality TC.

Quote:
But an entirely different reason for using it is its macro feature. It will take a 50mm to 1:1, or allow any lens to focus closer than its minimum, which is reason enough to get one, in many cases.


I dought it will be as optically as a Canon 500D close up lens for macro work.

Quote:

The Vivitar 2x is not uncommon and can be found in a variety of mounts. Here's an auction at eBay for a Nikon mount one that has some pretty good sized images to view:

Click here to see on Ebay

I currently own two -- one in Nikon mount and one in Canon FD mount.


Thanks for the heads up Michael. As you already have the Vivitar I wonder if there any way you can get hold of a 01F to compare it against? I'm out of work at the moment and therefore I have a severely limited budget. Crying or Very sad


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DSG wrote:
mo wrote:
Interesting topic...does anyone own both Tamron adapters to give us a comparison with both the 01F and the 200F.
I have only used the 01F on the Tamron mirror and I found it hard to obtain a decent focus.. Sad


The problem is the 200F is so rare you would have to be extremely lucky to find anyone who has one, let alone has a 01F as well to compare it against. You would have more chance of finding rocking horse droppings!
I think Michaels suggestion of the Vivitar macro focussing TC may be worth looking at.

Laughing That may be true but with our collective membership with all their collecting abilities there may be one member who has both out there! Wink
I would like to see the comparison as well!


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DSG wrote:


Thanks for the heads up Michael. As you already have the Vivitar I wonder if there any way you can get hold of a 01F to compare it against? I'm out of work at the moment and therefore I have a severely limited budget. Crying or Very sad


I own a 01F -- and also the Tamron 1.4x, whatever its designation is, far as that goes.

With regards to using the Vivitar 2x as a macro TC, it functions as an adjustable extension tube using a focusing helical to provide the extension. And I say I saw no degradation, but I'm working from old memories here, and this is what I recall. It's probably worthwhile going back and giving those images another look to see if my memories are accurate. But that is what I recall.

Tell ya what. I have a Tamron 90mm macro lens. If you want, I will put together a set of test shots with the lens. I can mount it to my EOS DSLR using a Nikon adaptall-2 mount and a Nikon to EOS adapter.

I'll take shots with the lens alone, then with the 01F attached, then with the Vivitar 2x.

To compare, I'll probably show the original image at 100% and compare the others at 50% to it, so that all images will be the same size. Or I could upsize the original and compare it to 100% images of the two TCs. Whichever.

It's a nice sunny day outside, so I'll look for a subject outdoors. Failing that, I have a copy stand and macro flash unit, so I can put together something for an indoors shoot as well.


PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
DSG wrote:


Thanks for the heads up Michael. As you already have the Vivitar I wonder if there any way you can get hold of a 01F to compare it against? I'm out of work at the moment and therefore I have a severely limited budget. Crying or Very sad


I own a 01F -- and also the Tamron 1.4x, whatever its designation is, far as that goes.

With regards to using the Vivitar 2x as a macro TC, it functions as an adjustable extension tube using a focusing helical to provide the extension. And I say I saw no degradation, but I'm working from old memories here, and this is what I recall. It's probably worthwhile going back and giving those images another look to see if my memories are accurate. But that is what I recall.

Tell ya what. I have a Tamron 90mm macro lens. If you want, I will put together a set of test shots with the lens. I can mount it to my EOS DSLR using a Nikon adaptall-2 mount and a Nikon to EOS adapter.

I'll take shots with the lens alone, then with the 01F attached, then with the Vivitar 2x.

To compare, I'll probably show the original image at 100% and compare the others at 50% to it, so that all images will be the same size. Or I could upsize the original and compare it to 100% images of the two TCs. Whichever.

It's a nice sunny day outside, so I'll look for a subject outdoors. Failing that, I have a copy stand and macro flash unit, so I can put together something for an indoors shoot as well.


That would be fantastic! Just a suggestion though...To save having to post full size pics, take some 100% crops of areas containing fine detail from the full size images then downsize the full size pics to 1024x768 and post them with the crops...The files will be much smaller so they will be quicker to upload and download. Wink


PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually I've already shot two sets of comparison photos. The first set was a problem. I was shooting them outside and it was a gusty day, yesterday. Managed to get all the shots done without a TC and with the Tamron, but the winds cranked up for the Vivitar and were causing enough movement with my subject that I got blurred photos. Twice. Went back inside to look at the pics, saw blurred ones, went back out, set up the tripod and camera/lens again, shot the set of photos again, then came back in only to see there was still motion-induced blur. So, I decided on something more stable. A 50-NT$ note resting on my copy stand.

I'm still kicking around the best way to make the crops. A 1024xwhatever crop of each isn't gonna tell you much, so I'll probably just show a photo of each, and then the comparison photos will be cropped and shown at 100%.

Since this test involves images of different 100% sizes, yet the goal is to determine whether there is any loss of image detail between "regular" images and those taken with the TCs, I'm inclined to place emphasis on the "regular" ones because they are the "originals," if you will. I can downsize the TC images to the size of the originals at 100% and that should show clearly whether any image detail is being lost.

I can also do the opposite -- show the TC images at 100% and upsize the original to their size. I've already played around with this method and it looks to be just as sound. I don't see any degradation to the image when the image is upsized using the bicubic sizing algorthm. What this later method will show, however, is if any additional information is being captured with the TCs. So this one also has its merits as well.

Maybe I should try both? I dunno. Perhaps what I'll do is the first method -- originals at 100%, downsized TC images -- see if I can spot any degradation to the TC images, and call it quits if I do. But if I don't, then I go with upsizing the original and the TC images at 100%.


PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In the past, I have compared the effect of several TCs in combination with MF telephoto lenses on my Olympus E3. I tested the Tamron 01F, a DOI 7 element and a Komura 7 element (both "compact" types of probably very similar construction) and a Tokina RMC which is longer at 40mm flange to flange. These were all 2x TCs, but I also tested my modern Zuiko Digital 1.4 TC with the lenses.

My general conclusion was that all the 2x TC significantly degraded the results and offered little extra detail over cropping the shot without the TC. Furthermore, they all (including the 1.4 digital TC) added significant colour fringing to the results. From memory, I found the Tamron to be no better than the DOI and Komura TCs even with a Tamron lens. The best TC was the Tokina (which may suggest something about the merit of using a longer optical scheme) as it gave the lowest level of added colour fringing.

I find there is a general problem of colour fringing when using old telephoto lenses on DSLRs , and the TC's just make it worse.

BTW, I have a Soligor 3x TC which is truly abysmal.

Mark


PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Vivitar x2 macro adapter and the 01F Tammy..

I can try them on a lens of known quality like the Adaptall 35-80mm 01A then report back.

I am at a conference from tomorrow so It will have to be next week.. besides it's so overcast here that nothing would look good! lol

Doug

PS I have an old Pentax x2 adapter that when paired with my A series f1.7 seems to maintain almost 100% quality at 100% pixel peeping.. though others show marked degradation...



DSG wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
For years, my favorite 2x teleconverter has been the Vivitar 2x 7-element macro focusing TC. I have taken test photos with it before: same image with and without the TC. And I have found no noticeable image degradation. By the same token, I've noticed no additional image resolution, either. For example, one of the tests was of the moon. The image taken with the TC showed no appreciable degradation, but it showed no additional image detail either. It was just an image of the moon that had been doubled. So when I saw this, I realized that I could do the same thing in post processing -- just upsize the image to double its original size, and I've accomplished the same thing.


Its quite a feat to find a TC that does'nt degrade IQ, even if its just by a small amount. The 60B is noticably sharper on its own than with the 01F, and the 01F is supposed be a very good quality TC.

Quote:
But an entirely different reason for using it is its macro feature. It will take a 50mm to 1:1, or allow any lens to focus closer than its minimum, which is reason enough to get one, in many cases.


I dought it will be as optically as a Canon 500D close up lens for macro work.

Quote:

The Vivitar 2x is not uncommon and can be found in a variety of mounts. Here's an auction at eBay for a Nikon mount one that has some pretty good sized images to view:

Click here to see on Ebay

I currently own two -- one in Nikon mount and one in Canon FD mount.


Thanks for the heads up Michael. As you already have the Vivitar I wonder if there any way you can get hold of a 01F to compare it against? I'm out of work at the moment and therefore I have a severely limited budget. Crying or Very sad


PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It slipped my mind that I should revisit this thread. I have shot a few comparison tests now using my Tamron 90mm macro with and without two TCs -- the Tamron 01F and the Vivitar 7-element 2x macro. You can find the thread here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/teleconverter-comparison-tamron-01f-vs-vivitar-macro-t38993.html

I still plan to add to the test using a Tamron SP 60-300mm as the test lens. It does exhibit some color fringing when shooting with it wide open, so using TCs with it should be a good test to see if the add to the fringing or not.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mo wrote:
Interesting topic...does anyone own both Tamron adapters to give us a comparison with both the 01F and the 200F.
I have only used the 01F on the Tamron mirror and I found it hard to obtain a decent focus.. Sad


The 01F is not designed to work with the Tamron SP 500mm F8 mirror lens - you need the 200F Confused

http://www.adaptall-2.org/lenses/200F.html

One other 2X converter I have read positive things about is the Komura Telemore 95 II - this is also a seven-element design.

One thing to keep in mind is that not all lenses respond well to using converters so experimentation is the key.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OM wrote:
mo wrote:
Interesting topic...does anyone own both Tamron adapters to give us a comparison with both the 01F and the 200F.
I have only used the 01F on the Tamron mirror and I found it hard to obtain a decent focus.. Sad


The 01F is not designed to work with the Tamron SP 500mm F8 mirror lens - you need the 200F Confused

http://www.adaptall-2.org/lenses/200F.html


This is not correct. The above link to the 200F says only those lenses that it will work with because of its protruding front element. The 01F does not have a protruding front element so can be used wiith just about every Tamron adaptall lens. I have a Tamron 500mm f/8 mirror and a 01F teleconverter, and I have used the pair together with no interference in their fit.

The 01F is Tamron's general purpose TC and is a quite good one. The 200F was made for specific applications, which include most all of Tamron's long telephotos and long zooms. It is a very rare piece nowadays. Good luck finding one.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
This is not correct...


...Quote "The 200F converter was designed to be used with Tamron's SP 300mm F/2.8, SP 400mm F/4, SP 200-500 F/5.6, and the SP 350mm F/5.6 and SP 500mm F/8 mirror lenses"

Taken from this page: http://www.adaptall-2.org/lenses/01F.html


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Okay, since you want to play the quote game, OM, the below statement is not correct. It is not an either/or situation with the 01F and 200F.

OM wrote:

The 01F is not designed to work with the Tamron SP 500mm F8 mirror lens


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My apologies - I should have added "specifically" into my statement.

I was just trying to help and it seems that the *best* 2X adapter for the SP500/8 will be the 200F.

Smile


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I don't think anybody will argue that point. Problem is finding a 200F. I've never seen one. They are very uncommon, and from what I understand, when one does show up on the market, it goes for big bucks.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When i get one I will let you know... Laughing might be a few years in searching!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just got my own copy of the Tamron TC 2x 200F

You can see that I have a happy face: Very Happy

I have two copies of 01F, one is constantly mount on the 90/2.5 macro.
Now I need to test the 200F with 55BB and 360B...


PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
For years, my favorite 2x teleconverter has been the Vivitar 2x 7-element macro focusing TC.

The Vivitar 2x is not uncommon and can be found in a variety of mounts. Here's an auction at eBay for a Nikon mount one that has some pretty good sized images to view:

Click here to see on Ebay


I have it and it's pretty cool with its own helicoid and all. Mine is called Kenko Teleplus. From some discussions over the net it seems that the manufacturer is Tokina. It would be interesting to compare it to Canon own converters 2xB and 2xA.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hoanpham wrote:
Just got my own copy of the Tamron TC 2x 200F

You can see that I have a happy face: Very Happy

I have two copies of 01F, one is constantly mount on the 90/2.5 macro.
Now I need to test the 200F with 55BB and 360B...


Cool Congratulations please post samples taken with your lenses when you can and can you show us exactly what the 200F looks like.
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