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Microfiche lenses
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:46 pm    Post subject: Microfiche lenses Reply with quote
Any interest in these parts on sharing images shot with micrographic / microfiche lenses? For me, this is a novelty: just gifted a Canon F03-P 23.5x optic and promptly did a quick garden safari to get the ball rolling.

It has an image circle of c.35mm at infinity, and just covers 36x24 full frame at 1:2. CA is very well controlled and bokeh is smooth, with inevitable swirl and resolution-droop in the outer zones visible on a larger sensor. On APS-C it would be dandy.

These are mainly full-frame, uncropped, unsharpened, downsampled images out DXO, taken from the Delta archive page: The inline thumbnails seem to have stripped the colour profile, but if you click and enlarge it displays correctly.







Last edited by 16:9 on Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:27 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 How does the adaptation happen?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's an easy one: the lens carrier pulls from the microfiche; the lens lifts out of its carrier; and one screw removes the 90° prism assembly. The barrel is approxiately 40mm in diameter, and smooth: with a little help from a rubber band, blutac, or adhesive felt, it slots right into an M42 helicoid.

It focuses to infinity, with a flange distance of around 30mm, but isn't optimised for it. It's designed for 1:1 flat field; these initial grab shots were at best 1:3.

Here's a 100% actual pixel view of the first image, reprocessed from DXO with a little extra sharpening.



PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Microfiche lenses Reply with quote
16:9 wrote:





Looks good! Like 1

I have used a couple of microfiche/microfilm lenses and feel like there are vast differences between them, so it's always a gamble. Some work very well, others are pretty bad or very limited. In general I would say that microfilm reduction lenses (used to capture images and get them onto microfilm, if I got that right) seem way more interesting as adapted lenses, while lenses used to view microfiche/microfilm images are very hit and miss, unless they were used in some very specialized/high-end device.


I found the Agfa Mikrogon 27.7 mm F 4.9 quite interesting for example:

Best of two worlds: Yet another coin + flower macro! by simple.joy, on Flickr

If you look closely, there are facets to every point... by simple.joy, on Flickr

Looking up spiders? Not really my thing. by simple.joy, on Flickr

The couple of Zeiss Tessar + Visiogon lenses I recently got and mentioned here (http://forum.mflenses.com/zeiss-jena-ddr-device-with-lens-turret-enlarger-t84493.html) also seem to have been part of the Zeiss Documator microfilm reading device.

For serious macro work some (film) scanner lenses seem clearly better though.

Lenses used on microfilm cameras on the other hand, like the recently mentioned Micro-Tamron 70 mm (http://forum.mflenses.com/odd-early-micro-tamron-70mm-f5-6-any-info-t40396.html) seem very interesting and significantly more versatile to me.

There's a time and ablaze for everything... by simple.joy, on Flickr

Sitting idle by simple.joy, on Flickr

I think some of them even make pretty good high magnification macro lenses, but they have to be reversed for that.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Amazing thread people. Keep them coming.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Impressive images.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There was a line of cone-shaped objectives made by Olympus for 3M microfiche readers across a wide range of magnifications. I have a bunch of them, probably most of the mags available. Surplus Shed was selling the 18.25x version a few months back, and it's a pretty good performer. The rated mags I believe are for the full-size projection image, and thus require a very long extension. Shorter extensions mean lower magnification, but only so much is practical in a regular macro setup. With a Vivitar bellows at full extension, I can get ~7.5x with the 18.25x objective, and it is pretty sharp to the corners. Here's a shot of a Lincoln Cent date and mintmark (what I call the "money shot") using the 18.25x:



PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
Impressive images.

Thank you! (if mine were even included...😅)

Ray Parkhurst wrote:
There was a line of cone-shaped objectives made by Olympus for 3M microfiche readers across a wide range of magnifications. I have a bunch of them, probably most of the mags available. Surplus Shed was selling the 18.25x version a few months back, and it's a pretty good performer. The rated mags I believe are for the full-size projection image, and thus require a very long extension. Shorter extensions mean lower magnification, but only so much is practical in a regular macro setup. With a Vivitar bellows at full extension, I can get ~7.5x with the 18.25x objective, and it is pretty sharp to the corners. Here's a shot of a Lincoln Cent date and mintmark (what I call the "money shot") using the 18.25x:



Indeed - thanks a lot for the reminder and the information on those!

I got a 3M 20.87X cone-shaped one as well and it's not bad.


This is the tiny twig a rosebud was attached to, probably at around 9:1 magnification:
Log-in by simple.joy, auf Flickr

a match
Hothead brought back to earth by simple.joy, auf Flickr

and I also tried it at around 20:1, here showing some hair:
Hairitage by simple.joy, auf Flickr

But my setup clearly isn't optimized for that. 🤔


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No surprise these lenses look much happier at those working distances! I'll carry on dragging them out of their comfort zone to explore their drawing style for a while before dipping into the macro realm, where I would imagine full-frame coverage is no problem. I have a couple of Minolta 23x and 29.5x lenses en-route to compare with the Canon. Both seem well regarded.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2023 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, this is my Canon Micro Zoom Lens BZ02 (C01F), which I also believe to be a microfiche reader lens. As the name suggests it is a zoom lens. It says 16-32 but I've no idea if that's mm, because I haven't measured it. While it has no variable aperture, the aperture shape actually changes, when zooming, from a circle to a rounded triangle. This way it can create really neat bokeh highlighs:

Mo-no-tone by simple.joy, on Flickr

It's okay in terms of sharpness, but at 16 (mm) it shows some serious center flare, which pretty much destroys contrast there (I tried to correct in processing, but it's still visible above).

It can be avoided if you avoid the stray light, but it doesn't work consistently, so it's probably best to try with a lens hood.



It's easier to handle at 32 (mm). CAs are clearly visible but it's not too bad:





PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's a stacked shot:

Spiceful by simple.joy, on Flickr

I'd say it's certainly possible to get some detail out of this lens, but it seems easier if you can control the light.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
These microfiche lenses in particular I have been curious about, even more so the zooms. How did you mount it? What's the coverage like? Would you try a flat field test?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interested too in mounting.
What contraption you use? Tapes and tubes?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have one from Canon.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Himself wrote:
Interested too in mounting.
What contraption you use? Tapes and tubes?



eggplant wrote:
These microfiche lenses in particular I have been curious about, even more so the zooms. How did you mount it? What's the coverage like? Would you try a flat field test?


There's no thread, but the lens has a diameter of around 38.5 mm at the rear. I added two layers of tape and put it inside of a M42 extension ring. Because I'm using it on a bellows with a lensboard, it can be used in both directions this way, either inside of the bellows our outside. The lens has a lever on the side however, so if my bellows was any smaller it wouldn't fit inside.

When used in what I presume to be its normal direction (inscription facing the subject, lever outside of the bellows) it's only good for the macro range because there's a significant space between camera and lens, which can't be reduced further, as part of it is inside of the lens. It covers full frame at 16x but shows (probably mechanical) vignetting at 32x already at anything below 1x magnification.

When used in reverse (inside of the bellows) it can reach infinity at 16x, but it unexpectedly isn't great for that and it is far from flat field and completely soft and distorted in the corners. It looks a bit like those lensbaby images where the optics are tilted in a way that only the very center is in focus. Could be used for interesting effects, but I doubt it's the best lens for that.

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It clearly is a macro lens from what I can tell - even a pretty decent one. I'd suspect my Noritsu varifocal lenses with similar focal length range to be better (and of course more versatile because they have a variable aperture), but I'd have to compare them directly to tell.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Microfiche lenses Reply with quote
I've compared one of my Noritsu minilab lenses, the 26-49 mm f/3.4-4.9 to the Canon. They seem to roughly cover a similar focal length range, with the Canon having a slightly bigger image circle at the widest focal length. I've decided to compare them both at their widest (because the Canon can't be used wide open at the longest) focal length.

As expected the Noritsu seems better, but while the Canon shows some more CAs it holds up surprisingly well. The Canon also renders a bit warmer, which I personally like, but because it's easily corrected, I don't think it's very important.

Canon BZ02 (full res)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52980632645_37638dbd21_o.jpg


Noritsu 26-49 mm f/3.4-4.9 (full res)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52980632625_5c6a46cab5_o.jpg


I'm pretty sure none of those two lenses is at its best at that magnifcation + focal length, but they both do a good enough job in my book.

I was certainly positively surprised by the Canon lens performance and having quite a bit of fun using it:


PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very pleasing images!

As it comes to Canon microfiche lenses, here are two threads I recently published with images from a Canon MR 2.4/24 lens, the first and the second, which include some shots like those ones.





And this one comes from a Minolta x33 microfiche lens equipped with a prism which was taken off as it ruins the IQ.

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